Gen Colin Powell endorses Obama! - Page 12 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #111 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 05:42 PM
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The messenger is an unpatriotic, unAmerican, despicable hack that is trying to tear down one of the most decorated and honored men this country has produced. Powell has been heralded by nearly everyone in this country as a hero and true success of the 20th Century. He has shown leadership skills for 40 years. He has shown himself to be principled and honest and most important, honorable.

Yet because he had the balls to make a decision to endorse a Democrat, sniveling little Neocons are doing everything they can to tear him down. It is unbecoming and should be embarrassing to attempt to defend.

Is that more clear?
A sure sign you have nothing constructive to say...

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post #112 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 05:59 PM
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A sure sign you have nothing constructive to say...
As if the generally destructive rant you have engaged in against Powell is somehow "constructive." I can just see it now, if the great General P were to endorse Obama that would also mean he was somehow a bad, suspicious dude too. You are a transparent, partisan hack.

Jim
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post #113 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 07:37 PM
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..
But nothing is anywhere remotely near what is considered either Political or Economic Socialism.
It's worse because the companies which are propped up by the governmet and not allowed to fail, are given a free rein in the marketplace as to their future actions. Welfare is handed out to a selected group of companies deemed big enough but no controls are applied. The government selects which survive or not. Doesn't this lead to an oligopoly ?

Now, even credit card securities are guaranteed by the fed (?!?)
Is Amex (and buffett) really too big to be left to the whims of the bankers or are the bankers targeting Amex as we speak ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/amex-can-take-part-fed/story.aspx?guid={0C22407F-A7BB-45A8-AB2E-C472F1221FA3}&dist=msr_8
AmEx can take part in Fed commercial paper guarantee program
By Alistair Barr
Last update: 5:38 p.m. EDT Oct. 20, 2008
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- American Express
Chief Executive Kenneth Chenault said late Monday that the credit card company's liquidity will be helped because it can take part in the commercial paper funding program recently unveiled by the Federal Reserve. American Express has been hit by concerns that it won't be able to securitize credit card loans as much as it used to because of the credit crunch. That's an important source of funding for the company. But on Monday, Chenault said American Express "can absolutely stay liquid." The company has "contingency programs" that would give it access to the funding it needs for at least 12 months, even in extreme conditions, he explained. "We're now also in a position to participate in the commercial paper funding guarantee programs that were recently announced," he added.
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post #114 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 07:41 PM
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^ Yup. That's more socialism than nationalized health care and education combined, IMO, which at least attempt to serve the masses.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #115 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 08:04 PM
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The government bailout, in its various iterations is a lot of things, most in my opinion not very good but they are not Socialism. The closest we have come to that path is as we look at "Nationalizing" Fannie and Freddie as underwriters. That step is a very LOOOOONG one that is fraught with danger but, the danger of not doing it was likely to have been much worse.

The key to all of this is the mechanisms to unravel it. The good news to that is that banks will want to be free of Uncle as soon as possible so the unraveling should occur once solvency of the sector is credible.

As for healthcare and education, putting regulations on commercial interests such as insurance companies and hospitals and medical practices, while annoying to them is not Socialism. They still remain publicly held profit generating companies. They simply have new regulations with which to deal.

Education reform is the outlier in the group. By definition it is Socialistic in nature, whether on the State or Federal level. I simply hope somebody gets their collective shit together quickly to start making us competitive in the world marketplace again. I don't really much care what system they use to do it or how much money they spend as long as we end up with much smarter, quicker and more proficient graduates. THAT is the important part of education.

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post #116 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 08:13 PM
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The risk is socialized whereas the benefits are given to a small selected group of companies (and thus individuals) who are deemed too big or important to fail. This is definitely not the traditional socialist society. Interesting how we end up in the exact same operational mode as before the crisis thus nothing was learned, but what else can one expect when former bankers are running the show.
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post #117 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 08:14 PM
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See Post #72. IMHO, aspects of the bailout absolutely qualify as socialism under that definition. Fannie & Freddie, buying into banks, not allowing free market enterprises to fail. This is central government planning and controlling the economy, and not just in some small regulatory sense.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #118 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 08:19 PM
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The risk is socialized whereas the benefits are given to a small selected group of companies (and thus individuals) who are deemed too big or important to fail. This is definitely not the traditional socialist society. Interesting how we end up in the exact same operational mode as before the crisis thus nothing was learned, but what else can one expect when former bankers are running the show.
The people and institutions who have failed must be made to suffer the consequences of failure. No consequence --> no lesson learned, no lesson learned --> repeat the mistake. Out government has lit out along a path designed to prop up the corporate power structure of our country at the expense of the very people they were elected to represent.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #119 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 08:27 PM
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See Post #72. IMHO, aspects of the bailout absolutely qualify as socialism under that definition. Fannie & Freddie, buying into banks, not allowing free market enterprises to fail. This is central government planning and controlling the economy, and not just in some small regulatory sense.
Extraordinary circumstances requiring extraordinary government actions to keep the U.S. economy afloat--w/out which the economy will sink taking most citizens w/ it--is far from socialism. And saying it is only makes you look stupid or deliberately partisan.

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post #120 of 160 (permalink) Old 10-21-2008, 08:28 PM
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See Post #72. IMHO, aspects of the bailout absolutely qualify as socialism under that definition. Fannie & Freddie, buying into banks, not allowing free market enterprises to fail. This is central government planning and controlling the economy, and not just in some small regulatory sense.
YES, it is central government planning and controlling the economy. So in that selective sense it is socialistic. If, and it is a REALLY BIG IF there were indications that this was anything other than an outlier I would agree that we were heading in that direction.

But what I see is a catastrophic problem that required extraordinary measures to BEGIN to address the issues and, because the problem is so large it could only be dealt with by the federal government. I think the timing of the Economic Crisis of 2008 was juxtaposed against an Election season where Healthcare also is in the spotlight. The two issues, taken together suggest more than they would have if they were not thrown together in such calamitous circumstance.

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