Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 - Page 24 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #231 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 10:26 PM
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Greed MADE unions a problem. They were formed for a good reason, but greed made them what they are today.
Greed made them what they were in the 70s. What they are now, for the most part are partners with companies. The old perceptions of Unions are just no longer valid.

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post #232 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 10:33 PM
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There is no flaw with my logic. Unions drove up the wages of guys making car parts and putting them on cars to $30/hr. Then guys next door to him at home say wth? you make that kind of money for doing a simple task? so should I! Then he goes into work the next day and quits his job designing circuit boards for a simpler one of assembling brakecalipers making more money doing it. How does this concept not screw up ALL companies? Your logic is flawed in thinking that a Union working to jack up the labor rates on one job doesn't indirectly do the same to the rates of other same-skill range or even possibly a little higher or lower skill range jobs.
You are only looking at a small number of the factors that have gone into the depression of the manufacturing. As Drew pointed out, OUTSOURCING for work at $0.20 per HOUR for manufacturing completely moots the Union arguments as there are NO workers in the United States that will reduce their standards of living to compete with a person that makes $440 PER YEAR.

Unions raised the bar for all workers, YES and that is a good thing. It enhanced the standard of living for everyone. Unless rampant inflation is associated with the raise, it works for everyone, business and worker. Then OFFSHORE happened. You cannot blame Unions for Offshore. Yet that is the prime contributor to US plants closing and US divisions shutting down manufacturing. It has been for nearly 25 years.

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post #233 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 10:35 PM
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THIS IS IMPORTANT

This one is important.

This had better have a much better plan and exit strategy than Iraq or the implications will be far worse.



Report: U.S. Considering Taking Ownership Stake in Banks

Wednesday, October 08, 2008

The U.S. Treasury Department is considering taking ownership stakes in many U.S. banks in a bid to restore confidence in the badly shaken financial system, the New York Times reported on its Web site Wednesday night.

The moves may come after the Treasury has had little success in unlocking frozen credit markets, The Times said, quoting unnamed government officials.

Treasury officials say the just-passed $700 billion bailout bill gives them the authority to inject cash directly into banks that request it, and the right to take ownership positions in those banks, the newspaper said.

Such a move would quickly strengthen banks' balance sheets and, officials hope, persuade them to resume lending, the Times said.

The Treasury plan, still preliminary, resembles one announced on Wednesday in Britain.

The American recapitalization plan, officials say, has emerged as one of the most favored new options being discussed in Washington and on Wall Street, according to the Times.

The gloomy market response to Wednesday's globally coordinated interest rate cuts by central banks sent policy makers and outside experts on a scramble for additional remedies to stabilize the banks and reassure investors, the Times said.

Treasury officials worry that aggressive government purchases, if not done properly, could alarm bank shareholders by appearing to be punitive or could be interpreted by the market as a sign that target banks were failing, the Times said.

The idea is gaining support even among longtime Republican policy makers who have spent most of their careers defending laissez-faire economic policies, according to the report.

FOXNews.com - Report: U.S. Considering Taking Ownership Stake in Banks - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

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post #234 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 10:38 PM
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They're insane. These idiots are willing to sacrifice everything our country stands for, all for the sake of the gd stock market.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #235 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 10:51 PM
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They're insane. These idiots are willing to sacrifice everything our country stands for, all for the sake of the gd stock market.
It's for more than the stock market but you are correct.

I completely disagree with the way they are going about this although I doubt there is a single clean way to salvage this situation that doesn't involve complete economic capitulation. I am not sure anyone has the stomach for that, no matter how strong their principles. Too many people will DIE.

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post #236 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 11:02 PM
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They're insane. These idiots are willing to sacrifice everything our country stands for, all for the sake of the gd stock market.
Andromeda strain.
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post #237 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 11:08 PM
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And of course the Fed has now cut already-too-low interest rates dramatically to 1½%, in an apparent effort to ensure that retirement income has no place to go but in the tank.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #238 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 11:24 PM
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Greed MADE unions a problem. They were formed for a good reason, but greed made them what they are today.
We have been down this path already. Poor management made Unions necessary. Poor management made Unions viable even after the original inequities were addressed. Poor management is always the cause of untenable Union contracts.

Get it straight, until recently in companies such as the ones mcbear has alluded to where the Union is brought into the boardroom and information on company strategic investments, performance and goals are discussed, and agreed to, Unions had no role other than to protect the workers by being an adversary to management. There was no other communication link and no other lever to pull or knob to twist to effect change.

It is a cheap shit, superficial assessment to blame Unions for the US industrial/manufacturing failures. Management has always been interested in an easy buck, and shipping jobs overseas is easier than demonstrating leadership. Jim
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post #239 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 03:11 PM
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We have been down this path already. Poor management made Unions necessary. Poor management made Unions viable even after the original inequities were addressed. Poor management is always the cause of untenable Union contracts.

Get it straight, until recently in companies such as the ones mcbear has alluded to where the Union is brought into the boardroom and information on company strategic investments, performance and goals are discussed, and agreed to, Unions had no role other than to protect the workers by being an adversary to management. There was no other communication link and no other lever to pull or knob to twist to effect change.

It is a cheap shit, superficial assessment to blame Unions for the US industrial/manufacturing failures. Management has always been interested in an easy buck, and shipping jobs overseas is easier than demonstrating leadership. Jim
I agree with you that poor management made unions necessary. I also agree that their greed has sent jobs overseas. I am just going on the facts that I have been told by GM workers who live near me. My Grandpa retired from Delphi about 15 years ago. I couldn't believe it when he told me how assembly workers were making $35/hr. How else could they be making so much money except for the UAW? Obviously this is more money than they would be making without the Union. That's all I am saying. People in non-union jobs of similar skill make between $13 and $17/hr.
post #240 of 242 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 03:18 PM
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