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Old 09-28-2008, 08:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
For The General Welfare Of The Country » Tenth Amendment Center

That being said/pasted, I agree that this most recent example violates the COTUS as well. And, I trust, being the non-partisan that you are, you are including the other party who will overwhelmingly support this bailout as well (and are clearly able to stop it) in your diatribe of disgust. I am.
My disgust with both parties is immense in this case, but my point is the Republican Party can no longer be considered The Principled Opposition, and now there is no reason to respect them at all. The Democrats have never advocated the Rugged Individual Doctrine, that belongs to the GOP, and they are doing about what I would expect, but they are doing so via unconstitutional means, and they will eventually be undone by the courts. This bailout requires a constitutional amendment. But that being said, it is the Republicans that should be resisting it with all their heart, but alas, they have no heart. It is sad. I think we are watching the passing of a great movement.

Tell me, do you think Social Security is constitutional? There is no specific enumeration for it, either, it falls entirely under the
general welfare" clause, does it not?
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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FTL:

Have the R's fiscal constitutionalist won out over the anti-constitutionalist in your opinion?
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:21 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Did Ron Paul win the GOP presidential nomination?

(same answer to both questions)
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cozette View Post
FTL:

Have the R's fiscal constitutionalist won out over the anti-constitutionalist in your opinion?
No, they will be in full battle mode after they lose the election, who knows how it will come out. Today's vote against the bailout just muddies the water more - were Congressmen turning to their Fiscal Constitutionalist roots, or where they just voting as the anti-constitutionalist's massive media machine told them too? I think the latter. The GOP is on the way to all out internal civil war. It may destroy them, the A/Cs are driving them like lemmings over a cliff, and the average GOP primary voter is an A/C-RWNJ. This means a base that will always be shrinking if the Dems govern successfully. I just don't see how the F/Cs can hold out - they sold out. The ones with principles will go Libertarian, which is why Ron Paul is so unpopular with the GOP: he's got principles.

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Old 09-29-2008, 09:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The war was fought and won in 2000, in utter silence.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You didn't do well in science, did you? Let's look at your position. Take all views into account of all the parties. Cool. If we are going to add in Creationism, which is singular to a subset of NeoConservative Christianity [hint, there is no suggestion of dinosaurs in the Bible] then we also need to teach Hindi thought of reincarnation, Scientology theory of alien intervention, Buddhist philosophy of simply being. There are at least five other competing views.

Interestingly only one is supported by scientific study and analysis.

What is wrong with teaching kids that there are different theories? Well, first, kids don't have the intellectual maturity do discern the difference between SCIENCE and RELIGION at some ages. Further, by suggesting they are equal theories, you teach a child that their decision making skills should not be influenced by evidence or logic.

When you teach these separate thoughts as equal theories you suspend the teaching of Critical Thinking skills because if you apply Critical Thinking Skills to Creationism it sinks like a rock.
The bible talks about dinosaurs a few times actually, the land of giants wasn't just giant humans. Creationism also has been studied far longer scientifically than evolution. I have read a great deal of articles by scientists who tried to study creationism to disprove it and eventually change to believe it themselves.

You can keep on teaching evolution but it needs to be classified as a religious theory, right up there with scientology.

What critical thinking skillset makes creationism sink like a rock?
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Great illustration of the coming Fiscal Constitutionalist / Anti-Constitutionalist War by Paul Roberts, former Assistant Treasury Secretary under Reagan, a card-carrying F/C. He nails the A/C wing to the wall, and in this article written last May:


From Failure to Threat
The Metamorphosis of the Conservative Movement

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

UC Berkeley tenured law professor John Yoo epitomizes the failure of the conservative movement in America. Known as “the torture professor,” Yoo penned the Department of Justice (sic) memos that gave a blank check to sadistic Americans to torture detainees at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. The human rights violations that John Yoo sanctioned destroyed America’s reputation and exposed the Bush Regime as more inhumane than the Muslim terrorists. The acts that Yoo justified are felonies under US law and war crimes under the Nuremberg standard.

Yoo’s torture memos are so devoid of legal basis that his close friend and fellow conservative member of the Federalist Society, Jack Goldsmith, rescinded the memos when he was appointed head of the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel.

Yoo’s extremely shoddy legal work and the fervor with which he served the evil intentions of the Bush Regime have led to calls from distinguished legal scholars for Yoo’s dismissal from Berkeley’s Boalt Hall.

I sympathize with the calls for Yoo’s dismissal. In the new edition of The Tyranny of Good Intentions, my coauthor and I write: “Liberty has no future in America if law schools provide legitimacy to those who would subvert the US Constitution.”

However, John Yoo is but the tip of the iceberg. Scapegoating Yoo diverts attention from a neoconservative movement that has become the greatest enemy of the US Constitution.

In theory conservatives adore the Constitution and seek to protect it with appeals to “original intent.” In practice conservatives hate the Constitution as the protector of homosexuals and abortionists. Conservatives regard civil liberties as coddling devices for criminals and terrorists. They see the First Amendment as a foolish protection for sedition. The neoconservative magazine, Commentary, has called for the New York Times to be prosecuted for informing Americans that President Bush was illegally spying on them without warrants.

The conservative assault on the US Constitution is deeply entrenched. The Federalist Society, an organization of Republican attorneys from which the Republican Party chooses its Justice Department appointees and nominees to the federal bench, was organized as an assault on the checks and balances in the Constitution.


The battle cry of the Federalist Society is “energy in the executive.” The society has its origin in Republican frustrations from the days when Republicans had a “lock on the presidency,” but had their agenda blocked by a Democratic Congress. The Federalist Society set about producing rationales for elevating the powers of the executive in order to evade the checks and balances the Founding Fathers wrote into the political system.

With the Bush Regime we have seen President Nixon’s claim that “it’s not illegal if the President does it” carried to new heights. With the complicity of Democrats, Bush and Cheney have appointed attorneys general who have elevated the presidency above the law.

Just as liberals used judicial activism in the federal courts to achieve their agenda, the conservatives are using the Department of Justice to concentrate power in the executive branch in order to achieve their agenda. In America the Constitution has no friends. It is always in the way of one agenda or the other and, thus, always under threat.

For now, however, the threat is from the right. Conservatives have confused loyalty to country, which is loyalty to the Constitution, with loyalty to the Bush Regime. It is purely a partisan loyalty based in emotion--”you are with us or against us.”

When I was a young man conservatives were frustrated that facts, reason and analysis could not penetrate liberal emotion. Today facts, reason and analysis cannot penetrate conservative emotions. When I write a factual column describing how we have been deceived into wars that are clearly not in our interest, self-described conservatives indignantly write to me: “If you hate America so much, why don’t you move to Cuba!” Conservatives have become so intellectually pathetic that they regard my defense of civil liberties as an anti-American act.

Today’s conservatives are so poorly informed that they cannot understand that to lose the Constitution is to lose the country.

John Yoo was a willing accomplice of inhumane and illegal acts. But his greatest crime is that he was a willing participant in the Bush Regime’s assault on the Constitution, which protects us all. If Yoo is to be held accountable, what about George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and his aides, attorneys general Gonzalles and Mukasey, Yoo’s Justice Department boss, now federal judge Bybee, Rumsfeld, Rice, Hadley, and the legion of neocon brownshirts that comprise the regime’s subcabinet? Is Yoo any more culpable than anyone else who served the corrupt, evil, and anti-American Bush Regime?

The ease with which the Bush Regime has run roughshod over the law and Constitution indicates that the brownshirt mentality to which many Americans have succumbed has sufficient attractive power to cause a professor from one of the country’s great liberal institutions to serve the cause of tyranny. The conservative movement has produced a cadre of brownshirts that might yet succeed in destroying the American Constitution.


Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: PaulCraigRoberts@yahoo.com

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 09-29-2008 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:28 PM   #18 (permalink)
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^I agree ALOT with this guy. Great article.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The bible talks about dinosaurs a few times actually, the land of giants wasn't just giant humans. Creationism also has been studied far longer scientifically than evolution. I have read a great deal of articles by scientists who tried to study creationism to disprove it and eventually change to believe it themselves.

You can keep on teaching evolution but it needs to be classified as a religious theory, right up there with scientology.

What critical thinking skillset makes creationism sink like a rock?
Man, are you ignorant or what?
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Man, are you ignorant or what?

Ask me that question when we are both dead.
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