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post #31 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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^ You never heard of Ron Paul, eh?
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post #32 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
^ You never heard of Ron Paul, eh?
I have and I am a big fan of his actually. I just wish he had a chance!

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #33 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 12:38 PM
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No argument there if you want America's competitive advantage at the hands of the few that would only engage in research if it's profitable not necessarily beneficial for human kind. Funding will dry up and only the rich will be served for "worthy" causes of course.
Let the Russians, the Chinese take that risk to advance their causes because our rich people will take care of us in the time of need; besides we don't need no sticking scientists, engineers and educators if we can hire those foreigners anyway. We will just keep the few American ones working on sensitive areas like weaponry and shit so we can always wield a stick in case those pesky foreigners get any ideas.
Maybe we should turn our whole country into a military camp that way we build true strength rather than mushy crappy science backed endeavors that only pansies take up because they can't hack it in gym, beside they look so nerdy with those coke bottle glasses anyway.
You're right, we need an America that almost look like a Nazi force, but we are not Nazis of course, it's just more orderly and uniforms are better suited for strong people anyway. We should however hold weekly book burnings since they serve no purpose but to give the libs something to back their argument with. We must stomp any semblance of elitism through thought or reasoning because that's dangerous and can only lead to questioning of our leaders, our way of life and why we have poorly educated people running the country.
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post #34 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by drewprof View Post
No argument there if you want America's competitive advantage at the hands of the few that would only engage in research if it's profitable not necessarily beneficial for human kind. Funding will dry up and only the rich will be served for "worthy" causes of course.
Let the Russians, the Chinese take that risk to advance their causes because our rich people will take care of us in the time of need; besides we don't need no sticking scientists, engineers and educators if we can hire those foreigners anyway. We will just keep the few American ones working on sensitive areas like weaponry and shit so we can always wield a stick in case those pesky foreigners get any ideas.
Maybe we should turn our whole country into a military camp that way we build true strength rather than mushy crappy science backed endeavors that only pansies take up because they can't hack it in gym, beside they look so nerdy with those coke bottle glasses anyway.
You're right, we need an America that almost look like a Nazi force, but we are not Nazis of course, it's just more orderly and uniforms are better suited for strong people anyway. We should however hold weekly book burnings since they serve no purpose but to give the libs something to back their argument with. We must stomp any semblance of elitism through thought or reasoning because that's dangerous and can only lead to questioning of our leaders, our way of life and why we have poorly educated people running the country.
Yes of course use scare tactics to try an prove your point but let's look at things a little bit objectively here.

Let's see, how did we get to the technologically advantageous postion we are at now?

Who invented the transistor? A private company called Bell Labs.
Who invented the integrated circuit or micro chip? There is an argument to this day about Texas instrument or Fairchild Semiconductor but still both private companies.
Who invented the Polio Vaccine? Jonas Salk at Mt. Sinai Hospital, a private organisation.
Who invented the sticky note? How about Coca-Cola? These are just the American inventions.

The truth of the matter is that the "Demand-Pull" of the government plays a big part. However the vast majority of progress has been as a result of a larger demand by the public. The facts of world History do not bear out your asserions.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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post #35 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 12:57 PM
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Show me in the constitution where it says the Federal Government should fund science.

I can show you where it says the Federal Government funds war.
Show us where it says to fund the FAA or the CDC or the GI Bill or Veterans Benefits.

Show us where it said to fund I-75 or Hartsfield International?

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post #36 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 12:59 PM
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I can show you where you are full of shit.

The Congress has the right to spend money pretty much anyway it sees fit, for the purpose of promoting the general welfare, which can all agree that science has done, has it not? Read the clause in bold. It contains the part where it says they get to fund war. It also includes a clause on funding actions that affect the general welfare of the populace, and then explicitly mentions science as one of those areas.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
That's gonna leave a mark.

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post #37 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TNTRower View Post
Yes of course use scare tactics to try an prove your point but let's look at things a little bit objectively here.

Let's see, how did we get to the technologically advantageous postion we are at now?

Who invented the transistor? A private company called Bell Labs.
Who invented the integrated circuit or micro chip? There is an argument to this day about Texas instrument or Fairchild Semiconductor but still both private companies.
Who invented the Polio Vaccine? Jonas Salk at Mt. Sinai Hospital, a private organisation.
Who invented the sticky note? How about Coca-Cola? These are just the American inventions.

The truth of the matter is that the "Demand-Pull" of the government plays a big part. However the vast majority of progress has been as a result of a larger demand by the public. The facts of world History do not bear out your asserions.
Inventing is one thing and implementing is another. Universities need funding to implement research and compile results that industry can use. It's all one entity but your plan to weaken education because it must not be tied to government funding just does not hold water.
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post #38 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 01:05 PM
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That's gonna leave a mark.
Well they still argue it's about copyright rather than promoting science and the arts.
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post #39 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 01:09 PM
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No I think NASA should be one of the Armed Services. It already mostly is.

I have offered why the organisations are useless, please offer your view on why they can not be replaced by the private sector.
There is not necessarily profit in pure research.

You suggest pushing these agencies to Universities yet, many also feel that they get too much government funding so you are just suggesting snuffling the budget around.

Also, having been in research while in the Air Force I learned much about the different agencies. They do things like aggregate research which is difficult for independent groups to do. The also promote National Interest issues like Moon Shots or Aids Research [after a five year lag], basic research in environmental science that might have zero profit potential but still needs done.

The work done to provide many of the tools that you would have used in Iraq and Afghanistan that saved lives of troops were developed in National Labs, not Corporate labs and not University labs.

McBear,
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post #40 of 87 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 01:10 PM
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That's gonna leave a mark.
Post Number 15

There is your answer.

Who's John Galt.

"Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes" - Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 2

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. --Benjamin Netayahu
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