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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 05:51 PM
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^ Until you decry deficit spending and acknowledge $280 Billion dollars of our annual fiscal budget is going toward INTEREST on the debt BushCo has racked up, anything you say with regard to a President (no matter how much I despised him) who could BALANCE a budget is without substance.
"Decry", "acknowledge"--you want to send me to a Siberian re-education camp so that my conversion will be permanent? Your massive disappointment with our government, our political parties and our political process is simply grounded in your unrealistic expectations of those entities. Believe me, happiness and contentment in life does not come government. You are a grown man and should know that already. You may just not have enough tolerance for ambiguity to engage in politics; stay home, don't vote.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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A rather limp excuse for a response. It's a pretty simple question, and not one that's nearly as charged as you make it out to be.

My point is that you're pretty comfortable acting as an apologist for the most inept and destructive crew of shitheads ever to sneak into this nation's economic wheelhouse, and even though I KNOW you're from Colorado, I just never assume that literally EVERYONE from a state suffers from the same maladies. But then again, I have low expectations.



Anyone else think I have "unrealistic" expectations of our government, political parties, and political process? If so, anyone think that's a BAD thing?
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 06:05 PM
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Fiscal responsibility is the single most important aspect of politics at any level of government. Pay before you play -- simple. And no, fiscal responsibility is not an unrealistic expectation. Those that shirk that responsibility and inflict hardships upon their constituency by doing so, should be held accountable in every way possible.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 07:45 PM
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Yes, there was a small budget surplus, but you usually fail to mention that it was achieved by the largest tax increase on record, later regretted by Clinton publicly. And, as you'd expect, it quickly led to recession starting at the end of his term. So, no, a tax increase leading to economic recession is not too conservative.
Man is that ever a load of total bullshit. A tax increase lead to a recession in the Clinton administration? You are simply full of shit.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 08:43 PM
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Yes, there was a small budget surplus, but you usually fail to mention that it was achieved by the largest tax increase on record, later regretted by Clinton publicly. And, as you'd expect, it quickly led to recession starting at the end of his term. So, no, a tax increase leading to economic recession is not too conservative.
We talked about this before. The largest tax increase on record belongs to REAGAN. TEFRA [1992] was bigger than Clinton's tax increase. The 1982 deficit-reduction package of Reagan and a GOP-controlled Senate was a bigger tax bill, both in 1993-adjusted dollars and as a percentage of the overall economy. Reagan's Gas Tax increase [82] and Social Security tax increase [83] provide an additional Reagan Tax increase bonus. And then there is the humorously named Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 that was a tax increase of .5% of GDP.

And "small budget surplus" would not be quite accurate with a surplus of over $550Billion generated during the surplus years and each previous year a lessened deficit.

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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 08:53 PM
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A rather limp excuse for a response. It's a pretty simple question, and not one that's nearly as charged as you make it out to be.

My point is that you're pretty comfortable acting as an apologist for the most inept and destructive crew of shitheads ever to sneak into this nation's economic wheelhouse, and even though I KNOW you're from Colorado, I just never assume that literally EVERYONE from a state suffers from the same maladies. But then again, I have low expectations.



Anyone else think I have "unrealistic" expectations of our government, political parties, and political process? If so, anyone think that's a BAD thing?
I don't think you have compromised your principles in an effort to "rationalize" the acts of a Political sub-Party. Many have. And they really don't understand that the rationalizations and excuses are just that.

I think you have very reasonable expectations of your government. If you are not railing against the current government in office I would question your reasoning skills. The key is to keep pushing it up a notch and MAKING them listen to you. We think that 1:300,000,000 is impossible odds to make a voice heard but it is not. And if everyone focuses, the ratio changes. They have to hear that the BS has got to stop. And polite filtering just doesn't do it. Nor does brown-nose acceptance of every word and act of an administration.

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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 08:56 PM
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Man is that ever a load of total bullshit. A tax increase lead to a recession in the Clinton administration? You are simply full of shit.
OK, Wizard of Profanity, tell me what was in error in my post that you think was bullshit. Warning: this may take you some research and thinking, so med-up first.

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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 09:05 PM
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We talked about this before. The largest tax increase on record belongs to REAGAN. TEFRA [1992] was bigger than Clinton's tax increase. The 1982 deficit-reduction package of Reagan and a GOP-controlled Senate was a bigger tax bill, both in 1993-adjusted dollars and as a percentage of the overall economy. Reagan's Gas Tax increase [82] and Social Security tax increase [83] provide an additional Reagan Tax increase bonus. And then there is the humorously named Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 that was a tax increase of .5% of GDP.

And "small budget surplus" would not be quite accurate with a surplus of over $550Billion generated during the surplus years and each previous year a lessened deficit.
Now all that's left to explain is why, with enormous Reagan tax increases, the budget remained seriously in the negative. Remember in your answer to consider that the budget is made up of two parts, tax collections and expenses and also who controlled congress during those years.

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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 10:20 PM
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Now all that's left to explain is why, with enormous Reagan tax increases, the budget remained seriously in the negative. Remember in your answer to consider that the budget is made up of two parts, tax collections and expenses and also who controlled congress during those years.
Well, let's see, the Senate was controlled for the first six years of the Reagan Administration by the Republicans. Viagra Bob was Senate Majority Leader. That, plus the Reagan VETO pen meant that any bill coming from the House could easily have been vetoed and not overridden. That did not happen. So, we can rule out renegade Democratic spending from the House of Representatives.

Now we can look at military spending and Reagan's 600 Ship Navy as one interesting charge slip. Also, we built up the federal bureaucracy in several Departments, increasing the share of "government requirements" to 28% of revenue. So maybe we can consider spending in many department of the Government as a legacy of the Reagan budget. Damned Conservative of him.

As for your "the budget remained seriously in the negative" phrase, I assume you mean the budget consistently ran in a deficit. If so, that would be the first of three sterling examples of Supply Side Economics at work. Revenues never matched spending because there was the fatally flawed theory that a country could spend its way out of deficits. It has been tried three times, it has failed three times. We now have a $10Trillion National Debt as a trophy for this Special Olympics event.

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