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post #51 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
I might start with "I used to think you were pretty sharp", but I'll do my best to rise above that level of personal insult. Do you have some proof that Tucker Carlson owned CNN or produced Crossfire, thus was responsible for its content? 'Cause seriously, I thought he was an employee, and as such, assumed the role that his boss(es) assigned him. If he were on his own, he must at the very least have been producing the show, or perhaps holding some dirt on one the producers to such an extent that he/she was afraid to rein him in. Alternatively, perhaps you can provide some evidence of a pattern of this inappropriate behavior you allege during the '90s before CNN hired him, because he demonstrated very little antagonism on his MSNBC show, and was generally quite respectful toward his guests, with whom he frequently disagreed.
I used to think I was smart too. There is something redeeming about possibly having been smart at one time, so don't get too concerned about how that might be perceived.

I think you have this a bit backwards. The CNN or MSNBC show producers pick the tools they want for their shows. The point here is that Tucker Carlson like a 12mm wrench. He only does tasks a 12mm wrench can do. So, CNN and MSNBC and others, when they need a 12 mm wrench, look around and find Tucker Carlson.

That would be ok, but Tucker is not made of 12 Chrome Steel. He is supposed to have some ability other than the 12mm function. We all have an opportunity to grow in our jobs, and Tucker doesn't. He is always the 12 mm wrench, and an open end one on each side, for that matter.

Robin Williams is an actor that started out with very limited roles. He is good though, and has since done many kinds of drama, all kinds of comedy and everything from adult to children's shows. Tucker could, if he was not such a single function tool, have had an influence on those shows, but, as you see it, didn't. I think he gave it his all and his fingerprints were all over the show while he was there. Unlike so many other real actors. Or professional news announcers. Tucker came, and has pretty much gone, and what we see differently here is, he had the opportunity to turn both shows into something special, and make a career for himself, and didn't in my view. In your view he had no choice but to be that 12 mm wrench. I don't see the big or little screen working that way. I see the "actors" having an influence on the shows for better or worse. Tucker's influence was on the spectrum of worse, and Stewart called him and the other "news shows" out.

Now, Stewart is an actor and entertainer. I think he has a lot to say about the content on his show. And, all told, it is my opinion that Stewart has had a positive influence on television shows in general. But hey, if I ever get smart again I will reread this and see if I still agree with myself. Jim

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post #52 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 06:03 PM
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That's not called thinking, it's called peeing.
He gets confused sometimes. At least it was in the shower this time.

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post #53 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 06:10 PM
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Some times I do nasty things in the shower.
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post #54 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 06:15 PM
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@ QBNCGAR

Until I joined this site and became familiar with Jayhawk and his apologists I just could not understand how Bush was elected twice. That most perplexing question (together with many others) has been fully resolved. I'm sure I'm not the only European in BW who now has developed a different view of Americans.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #55 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 08:29 PM
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Some times I do nasty things in the shower.

I could only imagine......NOT...
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post #56 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 08:38 PM
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@ QBNCGAR

Until I joined this site and became familiar with Jayhawk and his apologists I just could not understand how Bush was elected twice. That most perplexing question (together with many others) has been fully resolved. I'm sure I'm not the only European in BW who now has developed a different view of the SHRINKING28% of Americans.
Fixed that, more for us than for you.

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post #57 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
I do all my best thinking in the shower for some reason. Probably because my left brain is turned off, and I'm not trying. It just flows.

What crystalized this morning, was just how poisonous the mountain of divisive attitudes and language is to our nation.

And when I think of divisive, I think of Jayhawk.

He seems to serve no other purpose than to polarize people against themselves; to draw bold, broad, crevasse-deep lines that leave you no choice but to be on one side or the other of anything.

Here's what I see to be the problem with that.

When divisiveness takes root, a couple of evil things happen. First, people no longer think "What's the best we can do for the many?" - whether that be a country, a company, or a family.

Instead, they think in terms of two very different, very destructive questions. "What's the best *I* can do for *ME* / *MINE*?" - meaning the smaller group to which they've ascribed or been assigned; and "What can we do to screw the other guy?" - meaning everyone else.

I'm kind of a believer in "United we stand, divided we fall." I think this is why we fall when divided; nobody is paying attention to the bigger picture. The greater good. That which is bigger than themselves.

Things aren't done because they're the right thing to do, at least not on purpose or as a priority. That only happens when it's easy and obvious. Instead, lots of effort is wasted trying to make sure one side doesn't lose what they have, and simultaneously, trying to take some from the other side or find new and innovative ways of fucking them over.

The whole machine just grinds to a halt, spending whatever momentum it had cruising along, with nobody at the wheel. Does that analogy remind anyone of anything?

We're asking all the wrong questions. We're fighting and squabbling over things that, even if one side got their way, doesn't change jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

Nobody's lives improve at all if the fight over abortion, 2nd amendment rights, drug enforcement, etc. get resolved one way or the other.

The world doesn't become a better place if we get rid of all conservatives, or all liberals, or all libertarians, or all democrats, or all republicans.

Yet this is *exactly* the kind of shit we allow ourselves to fight over. And in my mind, the person who revels in this type of thing more than anyone I've ever known, is Jayhawk.

Yes, I've considered that everything he says about himself is a lie. That means he's a troll par excellence, and I recommend we engrave his name on the front page then ban him forever more. He's killing America.

Yes, I've considered that everything he says about himself is the truth. That means he's a demented, bored old son of a bitch who has nothing better to do with his education or wealth than to stir up shit on an internet forum. He's added no value, in any way shape or form, to the discourse here. He exists solely to antagonize; to lie; to instigate; to do all the things that, with different letters and words, others have been banned for. He's the guy in a tuxedo and crisp British accent who is telling you he hopes your baby gets eaten by a foreigner.

It's enough. It's not funny or entertaining anymore. It's cancerous. So is Hannity. So is O'Reilly. So is Carville. So are all of these assholes who indulge and encourage the debate over that which has no meaning, over that which does.

We get what we deserve though. Until we DEMAND, in STRONG terms and with real vigor, that the tone changes, it won't.

I challenge each of us to observe ourselves recently and in the future, and see if we're really helping - or if we too are actively/passively administering more of this poison killing our country.
you nailed the balkan issue very nicely.

also putin keeps jumping out at me... hmmm.. maybe i need a shower. lol

he makes you dig and ponder more, possibly



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post #58 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
A view from a different perspective.

Jay and I have been playing this game for well over three years. We have met and had very good dinner conversation for nearly six hours last October. We also exchange email at times on off OT subjects.

While I do tend to disagree with much of what Jay posts since he so firmly supports the failed Bush policies at EVERY possible turn, I don't know that I believe that he intentionally plays agent provocateur ALL the time [like Rush]. I think that just comes as a result of years of support for Bush and Republican politics and a distillation of thought that has polarized to a very Black and White reality. The personification of "You are either with us or against us".

To the deeper question of the debate, and the amount of discourse that is churned, I think it is very healthy. The debates here, and on some other forums have started elevating thought back to levels they were in the early part of this country. Fundamental conversations of core beliefs. We have people on all sides that are able to contribute well developed thought on their position. Unfortunately we also have a few who simply like to criticize the thoughts of others and not really contribute original thought or opinion. These snipers pollute the debate but, in an open forum are part of the mix.

I have copied some of the better conversations on to doc files from this forum to share with others. Some are brilliant. They cover such a vast spectrum of information and diverse opinion and, while everyone gives everyone else's opinion grief in the process, any honest opinion that is backed by fact or belief is tended to be treated with respect. Only those regurgitations of political dogma bereft of personal thought tend to not garner respect.


Back to Jay, really, I think some of his posting is just a reaction to the additional freedom he has gotten now that his handler in the Witless Protection Program has given him Internet Access.
Well said, and I'll offer a couple pennies more:

Q, Q, Q . . . dude . . . chill . . .

Jay is partisan, no doubt, severe GOP spin. I have misread or misunderstood Jay on occasion, and understood him better than others on a couple more. Bush is president, until a couple years ago, the congress was GOP, things were good. He wanted and wants things to be good so badly, that's what he sees. The glass is half full. Real Estate values down? Great opportunity to buy a house. Stocks go down, great opportunity to find bargains.
However, one thing that partisans can see is the partisanship of the other side. Of course, they see partisanship where it isn't as well, but the whole system is built on an us vs them foundation these days. Things are never as good or as bad as the way things are spun by partisans, and our governmental representatives are eat up in it.
Q, you're not a partisan, as I know you're a conservative, traditional GOP, yet you see some clear defects in your party. Many cannot see defects in their party, or give them a pass on the defects. It is refreshing that many on here rail against their party's failures, they see them, some folks I'd call Democrats by their usual positions have said they'd even vote for Ron Paul. But, case in point: If Iraq is your issue, and you're voting against McBush because of it, are you voting for the re-election of anyone in your state who voted "yea" to the resolution for war? If so, why? Do you buy into the rhetoric that they only voted for it because of Bush? Given that the constitution makes declaring war a legislative branch thing so that one moron can't take us to war, don't you expect them to discharge that duty with the due diligence they're supposed to? So, are you voting for anyone who supported the war? Or, are you happy that things, maybe the war, maybe the economy, maybe other things, have gone badly because you believe it will further your party? Is the improvement in Iraq a good thing? If we things got even better, and Bush began a steady withdrawal of troops, would you be happy? I'm not asking if you'd like him or want to do it all over again, but would you be happy? Have the Dems delivered on what they promised? Have they tried? Giving them a pass for not taking a stand since they don't have a veto proof majority?
Just an example or three, but it leads to the point that we see with our own filters and sometimes it takes a partisan to expose one. Jay's approach isn't likely to influence anyone here, but I do believe he knows exactly what he's doing when pushing buttons on here. In short (too late for that):

1. If things are always good when you're team is in and always bad when the other team is in, you might be a partisan.
2. If you think Obama being president would be the end of the world, you might be a partisan.
3. If you think McCain being president would be the end of the world, you might be a partisan.
4. If you think that either McCain or Obama is "genuine" and Ron Paul is a flake, you might be a partisan
5. If you can look at the evidence today and still believe that going to war in Iraq was correct, you might be a partisan
6. If you have rejoiced at news of additional terrorist/insurgent acts in Iraq, you might be a partisan
7. If you believe that Fox News is fair and balanced, you might be a partisan
8. If you believe the others are fair and balanced, you might be a partisan.

Feel free to follow my lead and add to the list.

And, Q, like Z always says, it's just the interweb, it ain't real.

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post #59 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
You are having the wrong epiphany here, my friend. Why would anyone take a shrill little man screaming at the top of his lungs seriously on any level? The epiphany you should work toward is taking him off of ignore because you genuinely understand that he doesn't matter.
vd was my epiphany. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
If Jayhawk existed in a vacuum, I'd hardly care. THAT he is taken seriously is exactly what is at issue, because as I said, when people indulge him (as I have in the past and am now fully sickened of), they've sacrificed their ability to pay attention to the bigger picture.

It happens all day, every day, on television and on the radio and in print, on a far larger scale than just Jayhawk, and if people are like me, the effects are so powerfully disorienting that the effects last far longer than just the time it takes to consume it. Like a poison. Now that I've seen it, it's clear as day, and I hate it. Were my chest a cannon, I'd shoot my heart at it.
i think, at large you are right on but you're not giving enough credit to bwot posters. this is a special collection.

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Originally Posted by Jakarta Expat View Post
I hate to imagine the erection Jay has gotten now that he has read that QBN was thinking of HIM in the shower...............
lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Stewart made his point very well. If Carlson thought he won, it DOES explain much about the superfluousness of Carlson.

Stewart was in a room with a pair of hacks who lack the simple thinking skills to understand that THEY are the problem. Carlson is not the worst, but was the worst in the room.
i agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Stewart was attacking Carlson on a personal level. Carlson was nothing more than an actor, employed to play a part for a television show. Sorry, but it was beyond silly. It was akin to a member of an audience rushing up on stage to attack the villain of a play in a theater. Further, the "superfluousness of Carlson" is utterly appropriate for an actor playing a part.
i think those are Stewart's point GS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
You're dead wrong. Tucker Carlson was not the producer of the show, nor was he given free rein in regard to its content. The show Crossfire had a specific format, and that format was to be as confrontational as possible. Toward that end, the producers hired two individuals to play the parts of combatants. Stewart essentially ambushed the show, and attacked one of the individuals as if he were something other than an employee playing the part he had been hired to portray, Carlson's silly analogy notwithstanding.
this is where Q ties in.

and bear, you said something that some don't comment more and just throw around sarcasm and such, well, you're not giving the posters enough credit either (including yourself). on so many subject you guys cover all the angles.. all i can say then is...




"stay the course"



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Last edited by mzsmbs; 09-17-2008 at 10:42 PM. Reason: i so gotta go to bed. laterzzz
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post #60 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 10:43 PM
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Damn, You guys are Smart.
lol. that's what i'm sayin'.



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