The war, from a military officer prospective - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:08 PM
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Do you truly believe we would not have gone to war if Gore was in office? Would the warcry by the US people been less if not fueled by misinformation of WMD propogated by the GOP?
There was no war cry regarding Iraq until Bush and Cheney started lying.

Gore had no axe to grind with Iraq regarding a perceived failure on the part of his father. Bush dide, and here we are....
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post #12 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:14 PM
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Is that a new revelation for you?
Yes, I thought before he was merely relying on bad intelligence from others. Now I realize the bad intelligence was between his ears.
post #13 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:16 PM
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There was no war cry regarding Iraq until Bush and Cheney started lying.

Gore had no axe to grind with Iraq regarding a perceived failure on the part of his father. Bush dide, and here we are....
I believe that even more now. I was horribly misinformed on the state of our intelligence and Bush's knowledge of the situation by the radio media.
post #14 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:20 PM
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Yes, I thought before he was merely relying on bad intelligence from others. Now I realize the bad intelligence was between his ears.
No, he knew that the Taliban controlled Afghanistan and he also knew that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. The intelligence reports were all cooked up to begin with and to thicken the plot the Israelis kept feeding us with their own version of intelligence that we needed to consume while they reminded us everyday why we must invade Iraq and they kept fanning in whatever made those report sound more dramatic and plausible. The same scenario is unfolding with Iran but to Israel's dismay we seem to have lost some of that lust for war. Maybe we are getting smarter, just like you are today
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post #15 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:28 PM
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No, he knew that the Taliban controlled Afghanistan and he also knew that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. The intelligence reports were all cooked up to begin with and to thicken the plot the Israelis kept feeding us with their own version of intelligence that we needed to consume while they reminded us everyday why we must invade Iraq and they kept fanning in whatever made those report sound more dramatic and plausible. The same scenario is unfolding with Iran but to Israel's dismay we seem to have lost some of that lust for war. Maybe we are getting smarter, just like you are today
I watched an interview with an Iranian girl on the news yesterday, did anyone else see that?

What an eye opener.
post #16 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:31 PM
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I watched an interview with an Iranian girl on the news yesterday, did anyone else see that?

What an eye opener.
No, but I bet you that 90% of it is simple propaganda
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post #17 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:33 PM
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No, but I bet you that 90% of it is simple propaganda
Well she made me realize that Iranian people were alot like us on a daily basis and didn't pay much attention to war or what the US was thinking. I had it pounded into my head that the entire middle eastern population plotted to kill Americans on a daily basis.
post #18 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:36 PM
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I believe that even more now. I was horribly misinformed on the state of our intelligence and Bush's knowledge of the situation by the radio media.
Be careful where you get your information. TV and radio are meant for manipulating intellectually lazy people. The internet is is full of information, but all of it has to be cross checked to "triangulate" in on what is believable. In most cases one of the perspectives that is worthwhile investigating is the perspective of the group of people we used to consider our allies in Europe. In general a consensus on US activities in Europe carries a little weight, and surely more than if you only read the French opinions or perspectives.

In America, unfortunately, the almighty dollar has poisoned the press. It was recognized in the US Constitution as part of the balance of power and granted special status with our Freedom of the Press. Today, the press/media is a business. They sell advertising and are given goals for sales like the rest of the entertainment shows. So, now TV news is entertainment and no longer a source of news. So, open up your options.

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post #19 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:39 PM
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Well she made me realize that Iranian people were alot like us on a daily basis and didn't pay much attention to war or what the US was thinking. I had it pounded into my head that the entire middle eastern population plotted to kill Americans on a daily basis.
How did it implant in your head that the entire ME was after us? It will be interesting if you're real to hear this, it can be very educational. I just hope you're not trolling for sympathy by playing it like you suddenly woke up from a coma or something
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post #20 of 130 (permalink) Old 09-16-2008, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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Do you truly believe we would not have gone to war if Gore was in office? Would the warcry by the US people been less if not fueled by misinformation of WMD propogated by the GOP?

Misinformation of WMD, is the whole problem. No American would have let a rouge nation posess WMDs, especially with the knowledge that the scuds had a good enough range to threaten allies. The vote on the Iraq war was 6-94 thats a landslide 'yea' and most far left wing Dems were for the war. So its hard to say WWAGD? and its a good point but you just said "misinformation propogated by the GOP" If someone lies to you and presents valid arguments and rallys behind them especially in the face of a tradgedy of epic proportions, how can you say no? Ultimately we were responsible for our security and WE blew it on 9/11. All the info that surfaced and then was swept under the rug leading up to 9/11 is disheartening at best. Long story short, its the dishonesty and mishandling leading up to the war that started the whole mess. I believe we would be at war regardless because the GOP had to fulfill its unfinished mission from Desert Storm/fox/SW/NW and were looking for any reason to go back in. I was in turkey for NW and on a daily basis they were flying missions that would obviously provoke any nation for a pretext to war.

Would staying out of war prevented the massive amount of foreclosure due to the overstretched housing industry and the predatory lending?

Well the housing industry inflated the cost of homes without any increases in wages. When I first started working minimum wage was $5.75. 12 later it's...$5.75 The average price of a home in Idaho was 100k the same type of home now sells for 200k min. So the price of homes doubled and wages increased single digit in those same 12 years.

I know exactly how the housing market bubble happened, and I have news for you its going to happen again if goverment doesnt step in.

When I decided to take advantage of the low price market, I saw first hand what fueled the problem. I told the broker my max was 300k. Well they pulled the "Well tell me what your really looking for" and of course what you really want and whats realistic. So before we looked at houses i needed a pre-approval letter. guess what? my GOOD (only good, not excellent) credit score and income had me pre-approved for $530k. Now your average person would have though WOW 530 we can get a 530k house no prob. I know I could get a 300k home and live okay, but 530k with PITI...HELL NO! But the realator was presistant and when we would look at homes I would test her honesty. she would take me to Range price homes that were listed at 320k but the actual was 320-370 and chances are they wouldn't accept less than 350 the difference between 320 and 370 is 300 a month. You can buy food from a grocery store for 2 people for the difference. So after we had an honest discussion and I threatened (and would have followed through) to look elsewhere. We found the perfect house but guess what... her cut was less...awwww. and the mortgage companies cut was less.. awww. The real estate market was greedy and didnt give two shits what your needs were, and I am so glad it has fucked the real estate industry. Maybe they will learn, but I doubt it.

Economic barometer (consumer confidence) in america was pretty poor after 9/11 and never really recovered and 2 years into the war it got worse no matter how many times bush 'missled' us into believing the economy was great. No matter how many times Wall street rallied, no matter how many record highs there were on futures and the Dow. Underneath people weren't confident, I mean the goverment just gave us money out of nowhere. Nope, no problem here, just need to give people more money, niothing to see here. 81,000 people are not spending the money they used to. Republicans like to think of the economy as a trickle down economy, well right now its a trickle up economy, us poor idiots not spending money on a bunch of worthless shit we dont need have finally made a dent in the bankers world little utopia they thought would be fine regardless of what us sub 200k earners did. I dont feel sorry for them and I dont think they should be bailed out by the federal government,

Long story short, consumer confidence would have been higher (the underlying economy, not wall street) had there been no 'unpopular' war. After the famous Bush/Mission accomplished speech on the carrier the war was a sucess but after troop increases and a yearlater when sectarian viloence was at its peak. people started thinking, heyyyyy... wait a second here, whats going on. when no WMDs were found people thought again heyyy wait hold on a sec. When 4 years had gone by and Osama Bin Laden hadnt been brought to justice they hung saddam to get our minds off that little fact but a year later still no bin laden and alot of bullshit excuses. People started finding out about the underlying sinister relationship between this administration and the bin ladens. Then when Bush was giving the security to our nations ports to an islamic country people started waking up to the bullshit around them.

If not, do you think that the government would have used more funding to aid said industry if we were not at war?

Well one things for sure, we would have more money to aid said industry. Given the current situation and the fact that the government already has provided aid to some powerhouse banks I would say YES. Now we dont have the money, thats apparent from the financial news this morning and we cant cut the FED ANYMORE!. 3-5 trillion dollars is missing from our budget..once again for absolutely fucking NOTHING

Name one thing the War has done for the american people that isn't hearsay.

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