Gov Palin is a true feminist. - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-14-2008, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Gov Palin is a true feminist.

This is a topic that should have its own thread, so I'm moving it out from under "Michele Obama as a drug abuser".

McBare, in his usual fashion of attempting to disqualify someone with whom he disagrees when he finds himself without any ammunition, asked if I had "ever spoken with a feminist?" Apparently, if I had spoken with one, I wouldn't seriously consider Gov. Palin a feminist. Actually, I think of Sarah Pain as a true feminist. Let me explain.

Feminism got its start in the 60s and the issues were 1. doing anything a man can do, 2. getting paid equally, 3. not depending on men for your position, path or future, 4. not being useless appendages of men. Men were not to devise rules that kept the gals out of the game and the gals did not want to deny that they were different than men. That was my understanding of feminism; I became an adult during this period.

Somewhere along the way, original feminism got hijacked by liberal politics with an attitude of condescending elitism. Real women who are accomplished and emancipated, but conservative, are seen as dupes and accused of just being tagalongs, enjoying choices that the new feminists created. Official feminism became obsessed with abortion rights and lesbianism. These last two issues directly minimize a positive regard for the real feminists of the 60s, expecially the conservative ones.

Feminism, a la Gov Palin, is a direct threat to a major constitent group of the Democrat Party. Not only is she truly feminine, she carries herself as well as any man, engages in many activities once the sole turf of men, has firmly established core principles, and has become successful in her own right, without the help of money or influence from family. In this sense, she is an icon of original feminism, as I know it.

Have I spoken with a feminist? My wife of 35 years is the best example I have. And two daughters who are incredibly independent.

So McBare can now tell us how speaking with a feminist puts him on the right side of this discussion.

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-14-2008, 08:29 PM
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Hmm, an N of 3, eh?

Wow, reproductive choice AND freedom of sexual expression...I never knew basic civil rights were such an intrinsic part of feminism--oh wait, I did know that.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-14-2008, 08:37 PM
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I don't know, I watched the republican convention along with Jay, and saw a lot of lesbians get their JOCK straps in a wad over Palin.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-14-2008, 08:58 PM
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Well said. This begs the question: With the media pouncing all over Palin, Ie how can a mother of 5 possibly run for VP,-where are the feminists? Why aren't any speaking out in her defense? If Palin were a liberal, things would be much different.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-14-2008, 09:56 PM
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Well said. This begs the question: With the media pouncing all over Palin, Ie how can a mother of 5 possibly run for VP,-where are the feminists? Why aren't any speaking out in her defense? If Palin were a liberal, things would be much different.
What's her position on assault rifles again?
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-14-2008, 10:28 PM
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What's her position on assault rifles again?




Apparently, at some point in time she became aware that the repeated administration of three shot bursts of recoil when strategically placed can be quite pleasurable.


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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-15-2008, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
This is a topic that should have its own thread, so I'm moving it out from under "Michele Obama as a drug abuser".

McBare, in his usual fashion of attempting to disqualify someone with whom he disagrees when he finds himself without any ammunition, asked if I had "ever spoken with a feminist?" Apparently, if I had spoken with one, I wouldn't seriously consider Gov. Palin a feminist. Actually, I think of Sarah Pain as a true feminist. Let me explain.

Feminism got its start in the 60s and the issues were 1. doing anything a man can do, 2. getting paid equally, 3. not depending on men for your position, path or future, 4. not being useless appendages of men. Men were not to devise rules that kept the gals out of the game and the gals did not want to deny that they were different than men. That was my understanding of feminism; I became an adult during this period.
Somewhere along the way, original feminism got hijacked by liberal politics with an attitude of condescending elitism. Real women who are accomplished and emancipated, but conservative, are seen as dupes and accused of just being tagalongs, enjoying choices that the new feminists created. Official feminism became obsessed with abortion rights and lesbianism. These last two issues directly minimize a positive regard for the real feminists of the 60s, expecially the conservative ones.

Feminism, a la Gov Palin, is a direct threat to a major constitent group of the Democrat Party. Not only is she truly feminine, she carries herself as well as any man, engages in many activities once the sole turf of men, has firmly established core principles, and has become successful in her own right, without the help of money or influence from family. In this sense, she is an icon of original feminism, as I know it.

Have I spoken with a feminist? My wife of 35 years is the best example I have. And two daughters who are incredibly independent.

So McBare can now tell us how speaking with a feminist puts him on the right side of this discussion.
As usual, you come up short again. I asked you if you had ever spoken to a feminist as your writing implies that you have no clue as to what it means. Today you post up your thread and fully prove my point. Thanks.

First, Feminism got its start, not in the 1960s but as early as the 1820s but really got going in 1869 by Susan B Anthony. The Nineteenth Amendment was the result in 1920.

In your little definition of feminism you gloss over some of the issues [such as your defense of free market business yet just mention equal pay for women]. In those same years that we grew up, I remember that RESPECT was one of the main issues. As was pure EQUAL RIGHTS, not select rights. And from the getgo, the right to chose what to do with their body was in the discussion. The right to be with whom they wanted was in the discussion. You might just have been sheltered and missed that part. Equal meant FREE and freedom meant CHOICE.

The benefits that your daughters receive are the direct results of those very "hijacked liberal politics" that you seem to abhor. And the odds are, if they work, they might still not get paid equally because the "free market business" climate allows that issue to still exist.

Is Palin a Feminist, NO. She is a very successful regional politician that, with time might make a good national level politician. But feminist, NO. She does not support all womens rights, just the ones SHE thinks are important.

But at least today I finally understand the reasons that I asked if you had ever talked to a feminist. You seem to believe that, because a woman is successful that makes her a feminist. It does not. You seem to believe that because a woman supports SOME womens issues that makes her a feminist. It does not. You seem to believe that a woman who supports only abstinence as birth control [while ignoring both its ineffectiveness and STDs] makes her a feminist. It does not.

Feminists everywhere support the likes of Meg Whitman, Carly Fiorina and the Governors who have kicked down many doors for women in this country. But because they are a success does not make them Feminists.

I have a pretty skewed perspective on this. I have very good friends who are both feminists AND successful in business and understand what that truly means. It is why comparisons with folks who don't even begin to match up seem strange at best. Folks like Martha Layne Collins [Gov in 1983-1987], Shelly Lazarus [Ogilvy CEO], Abby Kohnstamm [former VP IBM] and a slew of project execs, project managers, architects, engineers who define what we do in IT today.

Two last things, 1) I have a wealth of ammunition [sorry] so it this is your best shot might I suggest some remedial education and 2) it is spelled constituent not constitent.

McBear,
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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-15-2008, 01:33 PM
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Equal meant FREE and freedom meant CHOICE.
Right you are. Choice is the essence of feminism. The choice to have a career or a family or both. The choice over sexual expression. Control over the reproductive cycle. The choice to have children or not. Women can embody the feminist ideal no matter what they choose - it is the act of choosing (or having the choice in the first place) that makes them feminists. The key element is that men would no longer have the ability to set the field of choices available to women.

So how does this tie in to abortion rights? Its quite simple. Roe v. Wade was argued in 1971. At that time the Supreme court was a strictly male affair. The judges were all men, who were nominated by a man, confirmed largely by another collection of men, and then made decisions over the legality of various issues in conjunction with a group of men. There was no female representation in this process, and the court did not have its first female for 10 years following the Roe v. Wade argument. If abortion were to be made illegal in that decision, it would have been a group of men telling women what choices they have.

I think that Sarah Palin embodies a number of feminist concepts - she is confident and career-oriented while at the same time (by all appearances) she is also a dedicated family person. The women who fought for her right to be able to choose this path are amongst many of the same women who fought for a woman's right to choose. It seems to me that she wants to cherry-pick from that tree. How would she feel about a woman who campaigned on being anti-abortion and anti-sex education, but also against women holding positions of power and influence? Or against women having jobs after they've gotten married? I suspect she'd be good and bothered by it. As she should be.
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