Obama may have blown it - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:14 PM
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FTL, what happened to "Obama is unstoppable"?
I think this week's pop is a splash. Once it gets back to McCain v Obama and real issues and the glow of Palin's Mayoral experience fades, things will find equilibrium.

It is why polls are so misguided. They factor in flash popularity as much as substantive policy. But when folks go into the booth to vote, it is usually their last month's budget that drives their decision. How much did gas and milk and bread go up? Is Uncle Bob still laid off from the factory? Why do I have to pay a fuel surcharge to get stuff delivered from Lowe's? Why are banks failing and is MY money safe?

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post #12 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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I honestly don't know much about Biden, but is it possible that he's playing possum here? Damning Palin with faint praise? He's been the one saying what a great speech she gave and how debating and witty repartee isn't is bag, baby. Could he be wise and patient enough to let her have her moment in the sun and allow the expectation of a Biden ass-kicking build and build, only to come out and debate her to a stalemate? Or even better, defeat her? Everyone expects Palin to win this thing, so by winning it she only meets expectations. By debating to a draw (or worse, losing) she fails to meet expectations and looks like a failure as a result. Biden, on the other hand, looks like a bit of a hero for rising to the occasion.

I wouldn't be surprised if Biden is about to teach Palin a little lesson on how politics happens at this level.
And I wouldn't be either. Biden and McCain are the two cagey old bastards here, McCain just put one over on babe-in-the-woods-Obama, maybe it's time for "Sarah Barracuda" to run into a nasty old shark.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #13 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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FTL, what happened to "Obama is unstoppable"?
^I believe I stated that in regards to the Democratic nomination, IIRC. I've have always been pretty frank that I think this country still suffers from enough racism in both parties to make electing Obama extremely problematic - in fact if he does get elected we will as a nation be finally closing an ugly, ugly chapter in this country's history that began with slavery being ratified in the US Constitution - directly in contradiction to the simple revolutionary statement made by the geniuses who founded this country: All Men Are Created Equal. It has cost us a million lives in civil war, Jim Crow klanism and 60s riots, and it has cost us incaluable social progress.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #14 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:35 PM
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I would have totally agreed with you just a few short weeks back, but I changed my views because of a short conversation. A female friend of mine, owns her own business, very,very conservative views for years spoke of Hillary in only the most derogatory terms. But by the end of the primary elections, she was at the point of switching over to the Democrats due to her new respect for Hillary as a woman who championed the cause of women. I think the votes of conservative women attracted to Hillary would have outweighed the right wing nut jobs, a faction dominated by white men, to the point she would have been an advantage.
You know that clearly reminds me of when I was in elementary school and when we were learning about American history and 2 - 3rds of a man thing, my teacher always said that it took a long time for a Black man to have status of a White women. (Does anybody remember this?)

This election looks to be carrying the same tone. And I can see how an OC ticket would have swayed things greatly but if its about putting Palin next to Obama then they are voting for the very wrong reasons. I too know of some people who want to make this a (First time _________ has ever made office) , but this kind of thinking going to the polls is what divides this nation. I think it will be a hard sell to the person that wants to be given their opinion then rather creating it for them selves.

I swear on my death bed, that if I ever made a decision based on those perimeters I'd be dead or in jail. Thats why I can only hope that people see the light. Interesting enough I have a friend who works on the Obama campaign. She and her family live in a republican town. She was chosen by the Obama Campaign to work at the convention and signed in the delegates every morning. She said she is not really part of the Democratic Party but rather just an Obama supporter.






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post #15 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:39 PM
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Hillary is a disingenuous conniving cunt who will do anything to remain in power, including selling her own daughter's soul. Do we really want the distraction of Bill Clinton in the White House again?

This is a journey Obama has taken on his own, with great success, despite the slings and arrows hurled at him by Hillary. I applaud her, honestly, for being so selfless during the convention, but to consider Obama to have failed by not selecting her is, I think, nonsense. An equal number of people would have voted for McCain based on the prospect of an Obama/Clinton ticket, myself among them. Hillary is a war pig, as I think you've pointed out, and would have made Obama's life miserable if he wanted to withdraw troops - which is all the more I want the man to go to Washington and do.
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post #16 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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The VP only has whatever power the President chooses to give it. But I think you misunderstand my point, Hillary as a candidate or person is not the issue, the issue is whether the correct political calculation was made. GS's point that Obama seems to have made his based on the good of the country vs McCain's doing so for political purposes is exactly correct, but it is the person who does it for political purposes who usually wins the game of politics, just ask Hillary's occasional bed mate. My point is this - Obama made a poor political decision and it may very well cost him the election, and the credit he gets for thinking of his country over hiring a conniving cunt isn't going to be worth a bootful of warm piss on Nov 6.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #17 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:01 PM
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The VP only has whatever power the President chooses to give it. But I think you misunderstand my point, Hillary as a candidate or person is not the issue, the issue is whether the correct political calculation was made. GS's point that Obama seems to have made his based on the good of the country vs McCain's doing so for political purposes is exactly correct, but it is the person who does it for political purposes who usually wins the game of politics, just ask Hillary's occasional bed mate. My point is this - Obama made a poor political decision and it may very well cost him the election, and the credit he gets for thinking of his country over hiring a conniving cunt isn't going to be worth a bootful of warm piss on Nov 6.






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post #18 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:30 PM
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The VP only has whatever power the President chooses to give it. But I think you misunderstand my point, Hillary as a candidate or person is not the issue, the issue is whether the correct political calculation was made. GS's point that Obama seems to have made his based on the good of the country vs McCain's doing so for political purposes is exactly correct, but it is the person who does it for political purposes who usually wins the game of politics, just ask Hillary's occasional bed mate. My point is this - Obama made a poor political decision and it may very well cost him the election, and the credit he gets for thinking of his country over hiring a conniving cunt isn't going to be worth a bootful of warm piss on Nov 6.
Well, I will stand up for a person who makes the call for country and its people over political interest EVERY TIME. If he loses, he loses based on a selfless decision. If McCain wins, he knows that he could not have done it without a political ploy.

But I think this worry is all for nothing. Once the voters and press start focusing on issues and issues and issues and further away from the conventions, the election will be what was always assumed, very close.

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post #19 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:33 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if Biden is about to teach Palin a little lesson on how politics happens at this level.
I most certainly think that is what will happen.
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post #20 of 63 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:39 PM
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Well, I will stand up for a person who makes the call for country and its people over political interest EVERY TIME. If he loses, he loses based on a selfless decision. If McCain wins, he knows that he could not have done it without a political ploy.

But I think this worry is all for nothing. Once the voters and press start focusing on issues and issues and issues and further away from the conventions, the election will be what was always assumed, very close.
Right, and hinging to a precarious extent on the youth vote...

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