Is Anyone Watching this Palin Disaster Unfold? What was McCain Thinking? - Page 28 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #271 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Because when a woman has the right to choose, a fetus has no functional abilities to live or survive on its on. It is, at that time a parasite.

That is the simple biology of it.
and one must ad that under the age of 18, one has basically no rights.



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post #272 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 01:26 AM
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Being very ProLife and actively wanting to overturn Roe v Wade has put HER in a position to have her personal life opened up. If she wants to intrude in others personal lives with her opinions and decisions, she has to be ready and willing to accept the same.

Unless of course she wants a double standard.
'the daughter DECIDED to keep the baby'....



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post #273 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 01:44 AM
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post #274 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 06:08 AM
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You just blew your "doesn't anyone think about adoption..." argument completely out of the universe. THAT is one of the worst rationalizations I have heard on the subject.

Any old unwanted child? That is bilaterally opposed to your previous descriptions of children.
Of course it was out of line - so was Shane's assertion that you can inflict whatever pain you want on any other living thing as long as it can't feel or remember it. Barbaric.


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You suggest, no DEMAND that women NOT have an abortion, choose the alternatives of keeping the child or putting it up for adopting and then denigrate the mother by suggesting dubious intent on that woman's part.

WOW. That is the heigth of hypocrisy.
It was a hypothetical situation, posed based on taking Shane's suggestion - everyone should be in the adoption market if they want a voice about abortion - to it's logical end.

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The question was very valid. You only have one child. You have plenty of room for more. Why have you not opened your doors to children who need homes? It solidifies your position and solves part of the problem at the same time. The only reason not to would be if you felt that you required YOUR DNA in the children you raised. Most folks who adopt find that to not be a very good excuse.
If someone wants to show me either the decision support checklist for how many children it's acceptable or required to have, I'm all game. Didn't know there was one. Of course, you know, that little knife cuts both ways. Perhaps people who don't have kids feel as if they've no choice but to argue for abortion, for fear of answering this ridiculous and irrelevant question.

I've got plenty of reasons that we have only one child, and don't need to answer that to anyone. I find the entire question over the line. It's a perverse attempt to distract from the issue at hand. WE have exercised careful judgement with regard to procreation...and now I'm to be thrown on the fire for acting responsibly? Whatever.
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post #275 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 06:09 AM
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Adoption works really good for blond haired blue eyed healthy babies. On the other hand, black, mixed race, unhealthy, Latino and others are usually just shit out of luck.
You can't substantiate that and you know it. China has a pretty hopping market...they aren't blond haired or blue eyed. Look into waiting lists at adoption clinics nationally....they aren't short.


http://adoptionservices.org/adoption...ing_period.htm
Our current waiting time for the placement of a healthy US-born Caucasian infant is approximately 6 to 24 months. For a healthy US-born Black or bi-racial (Caucasian/African-American) infant the wait is approximately 2 to 6 months.

...

The waiting time, from the time of your Registration through the placement and adoption, for a Russian or other Eastern European child is approximately 6-12 months. It is approximately 12 to 24 months for a Chinese child, and approximately 4-8 months for a Guatemalan child. For other countries it varies depending on the country.

Please note that in the China, Eastern Europe, Russia, and Guatemalan programs, all adopting families will need to travel to the foreign country. The stay in China is typically about 10-14 days. In Eastern Europe families may be required to make 2 trips. The first trip is 3-5 days in length and the second trip is about 10-15 days long. Travel time with Guatemala is approximately 3-4 business days.
No demand, I suppose...which is why there are companies that offer "adoption loans" from $10,000 up to $100,000 on 72 month terms.


And this process isn't a cakewalk for the adopting parents, either.

http://encyclopedia.adoption.com/ent...sts/370/1.html
Waiting lists vary greatly from agency to agency and exist primarily as a function of the imbalance between the numbers of infants in need of families and the much larger numbers of couples and single persons who are interested in adopting children, especially infants. (Waiting lists are much shorter for individuals interested in adopting older children or children with SPECIAL NEEDS.


Some agencies require individuals to wait for at least a year before they may be studied while others will not accept applications after a certain number of applicants have registered and until they believe they will be able to do a home study and place a child with the applicant within a reasonable length of time.

Virtually all agencies maintain waiting lists of people who have been approved to adopt. Most agencies consider a group of approved families for the next child to be adopted. Many of these agencies also offer the birthmother the opportunity to choose the adopting family from a group of nonidentifying resumés of previously approved families.

Most prospective adoptive parents do not like the prospect of spending several years' time on a waiting list, even if they understand the main reason for the wait to be an imbalance in numbers. Social workers believe that one good by-product of waiting lists is they may give applicants time that is often needed to seriously reflect on adoption and to work through any final infertility conflicts the family may have.

Parents interested in adopting a child with special needs usually are specifically matched to a child in terms of being able to deal with these special needs, and therefore, their wait may be very brief or very lengthy depending on the type of child the family feels they can accept and also depending on the suitability of their family for the child.

Last edited by Qubes; 09-02-2008 at 07:36 AM.
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post #276 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
You seem fixated on late term when trying to make your points. What about those which which development has not occurred, viability does not exist and ProLife excuses pretty much go away?
You seem equally fixated on associating me with the ProLife movement, and thusly, it's "excuses".

I've been consistent in arguing that the uncertainty surrounding the moment of viability, or the absence of real tests that can be agreed upon to establish viability, mean that you have to err on the side of caution - meaning assume the child will gestate to term. Go ahead and argue that an unborn child doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt; or argue that you know empirically that a fetus is inviable and unable to respond to sensory stimulation before a certain date.

If a viability test can be agreed upon, I'm all behind it. Roe v. Wade isn't it.
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post #277 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 06:31 AM
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post #278 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 08:17 AM
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women tend to vote with their emotions and i hear many Hillary fans are liking this Palin chica and may vote that way.

personally i am thinking that the repos are about to implode though.
Are you kidding me? All the ones I know want to vomit when they hear what she stands for. She is not just pro-life, she is rabid pro-life. She is not just pro-gun, she styles herself as some female Ted Nugent. You hitting two of the top issues of these people.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #279 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 08:20 AM
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It's a fake website, a total fucking fraud. This is what your GOP is all about, internet hoax websites, phony emails and Swift Boat books. Funny how those who sold us a pack of lies on Iraq are now trying to sell us a pack of lies on Obama.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #280 of 423 (permalink) Old 09-02-2008, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
What is the beef with this woman? I really don't see anything negative about her.
I find the Creationism thing the biggest slice of hamburger. I can tolerate "Intelligent Design", but Creationism is a belief in the literal meaning of Genesis, that the planet was created some 6,000 years ago and that dinosaurs went extinct because they didn't make it to the Ark in time.

In this day and age, people who push that that kind of Medieval ignorance should be taught in the public schools are an outright danger to our children, who will inherit a world of technological competition even more intense than we are experincing now. We as a country have suffered tremendously from allowing people that push this world view into the public statutes. John McCain is moving beyond the highest age of average life expectency, and is the most likely candidate to die in office. The very thought a person who espouses this kind of utter horseshit is a cause for any educated person to shudder. Shane, I urge you to become more aware of this movement.

It's primary leader, "Dr." Carl Baugh ( that as in diploma-mill Dr.) is quite franky, a nut one step away from a rubber room. I urge anyone who wishes to educate themselves on the level of moronism these shitheads are trying to push to tune into his weekly show on the Trinity Broadcasting Network "Creationism in the 21st Century" on Tuesday evenings 6PM CST. Or you can surf his site:

Creation Evidence Museum Online - General Information

or Shane, you can drive out to Glen Rose, and perhaps you will also become aware that Creationists don't stop at the Biblical Creation, they believe all of the Bible is "inerrant", and that you in fact are an ibomination before God worthy of death. Just ask him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Baugh

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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