Interesting Global Warming Debate Thread - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 2 (permalink) Old 08-28-2008, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting Global Warming Debate Thread

Some of the commenters on this site could have fun here.

Will Wilkinson / The Fly Bottle Blog Archive Ranting Cant

It starts...
I endorse this explanation, and prediction, from Crispin Sartwell:
as i’ve said, the insane jackup of rhetoric with regard to global warming, “the greatest crisis the species has ever faced,” the death of the planet, etc, is the secular humanist liberal apocalypse. it’s a sheer competition for who’s most dire, most obsessed, and who’s more unanimous than whom. it’s the flood, complete with the reasons: our moral culpability. i predict this: when obama is elected, liberals will feel better about themselves and the probable verdict of cosmic judgment, and they’ll tone down the eschatology, the ranting cant.
Climate eschatology really is the ultimate in big lie crisis politics. The far-left has failed so comprehensively to make the case for its vision of society and economy that the only thing left to do is to brazenly and repeatedly assert that the world will literally collapse unless we implement this otherwise indefensible vision.

Also read Sartwell on the completely idiotic claim that we only have 100 months left to “do something.”
this piece, for example, has no motivation except that some website claims that we’ve got a hundred months until our incineration becomes inevitable. in other words, it’s not about science; it’s not even about the columnist’s interesting moves in an argument, his poetry or rhetoric or something: it’s simply reporting that someone else has jacked up the volume, yet again.
I think the point is that the clock really is ticking. If we don’t “do something” soon, we’ll probably see that we don’t really need to do anything really dramatic, and then the window for radical social change will be closed. So I expect the volume to get much louder.

Quoth "Freddie"...
"In other words, it's not about science". Well, exactly; you and he haven't, actually, made a scientific statement at all about your opponents' opinions. You've just assumed bad faith and dismissed them based on pernicious motives that you've invented out of whole cloth.

Look, you (and I) have different opinions that the people you're talking about on the empirical questions of climate change. Why assume bad faith and corrupt motives? Can't they just disagree with your assessment of the world and what the factual evidence says about it? I would remind you that there are a great many climatologists-- you know, people who know more about the subject than you or I-- among those who have deep concern about this issue. They're really lying? They really don't think that the empirical data that they've rigorously assembled in confronting the question of a warming climate supports such worry? They're really just so dedicated to the mission of "the far left" that they'll abandon their professional and personal integrity and ethics, all in order to... destroy capitalism by advocating that people use less carbon, I guess. Truly, this is supervillainy.

We can't all strap on our mental X-ray specs and peer into the (twisted, evil!) minds of those we disagree with. Instead we've got to muddle through, and make the best out of the information available to us. You don't agree with those people about climate change. Fair enough. Neither do I, entirely. I don't pretend, however, to have such unique access to truth that I can in any way crawl inside the minds of my opponents and declare their sinister motives. I can see the appeal of thinking that you can detect ulterior motives and bad faith in everyone that you don't like; it means you avoid having to engage in the messy business of figuring out what's right that the rest of us have to go through. But I don't think that it's any way to pursue either a workable understanding of human life, or to develop a moral and pragmatically sound public policy.
In response...

"Why assume bad faith and corrupt motives?" There is plenty of evidence of bad faith, including the fact that one cannot offer reasoned skepticism about the wisdom of dramatic action on climate change without having one's motives attacked and being accused of bad faith. It's tiring having people constantly trying to bully you, who then accuse you of indifference to reasoned debate when you, in exasperation, point out their evident aversion to it.

Did you read the 100 months piece? Is it not a bullying attempt to cut short the debate, to cast further reasoned deliberation as too dangerous to contemplate? As a champion of sober argumentative virtue, what do you think of that kind of tactic?

And in response to that...
So the words of some random idiot speak for the whole of a group he professes to be a part of? Or are you just looking for a quick way to marginalize a whole lot of people that are smarter than you?
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post #2 of 2 (permalink) Old 08-28-2008, 07:46 AM
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