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post #61 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:38 AM
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I sense an appalling lack of sincerity here, I just can't locate the source...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #62 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Black&TanW210 View Post
I am sure it would be right on par with what this discussion has deteriorated into. Sarcasm, and insults. I should have known what to expect.
...and no one noticed how polite you were
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post #63 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Black&TanW210 View Post
Can any of you tell me which policied implemented solely by President Bush that you firmly oppose. Because honestly, I have serious concerns if Barack or Hillary were elected, and the catastrophic failure this country will become.
This country is a catastrophic failure. We have a debt that went from two trillion dollars to ten trillion. We are mired in an unwinnable war, and we can't even catch a terrorist who lives in a cave after he murders 3,000 of our citizens. We have millions without healthcare, and middle class income is falling instead of rising for the first time in history, and traditional middle class assets such as home values and 401ks are going down the toilet. You call that some kind of mark of success? Bushism is a failure, a scam to further enrich the rich, nothing more, and it has worked quite well for them, while everyone else is doing worse.


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Have any of you considered how the government is going to provide people with socialized healthcare. Can you even begin to comprehend how many billions of dollars it is going to cost? Where do you think that money is going to come from?
Perhaps you should ask a Japanese or an Englishman, or a Canadian, they seem to be finding the dollars just fine. If you were to ask me, I would tell you that there is a huge amount of waste in the redundancy of insurance company beuracracies and paper work. The solution is to create a single national health insurance company that all would be required to purchase health insurance from, so the answer is: from you, just like it does now.


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What do you think is going to happen to the quality of treatment that we have been receiving in this country. Am I the only one left who thinks that you deserve only what you work to achieve?
Plenty of people work, pal, some of them simply do not make as much money as you and many of them work for greedy bastards who will not provide health insurance. Since the control of greedy bastards is a government function, I think those whose "quality of treatment" consists of dying in an emergency room waiting area will see this as an improvement. You, on the other hand, would be free to buy supplemental insurance from my new firm, The Greedy Bastards Insurance Corporation. While others you small reptiles as logos, ours will be an over-stuffed pig.



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the democratic party so willing to sabotage the economy by thinking that they have the right to expand government to control large corporations and tell them how much they should be able to profit?
Is that a serious question? Perhaps you could rephrase it so it makes sense, the Republicans have been the ones who seemed to have sabotaged the economy lately.

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the hell is Obama going to provide so much for the middle class by raising taxes, and increasing the cost for the corporations that employ the working class? If the corporations have higher costs, they are going to lower their wages. Are you people completely inept? Do you really think that we need more government to solve all of our problems?
I have heard no proposals from Obama on raising corporate income taxes. His proposals are to raise personal income taxes on those with incomes over $250,000 so that they will no longer be getting a free welcher's ride on the rest of us with their phony "tax cuts", which have never been nothing more than a huge Ponzi scheme to rip off our grandchildren by borrowing huge sums of money that they will have to pay, and then giving the money to the rich in the form of "tax cuts". In fact, Obama policy is lowering taxes on the middle class.

Your idea on corporate costs is ridiculous. Currently, all healthcare costs in this country are borne by employers. Moving this off their backs as a cost of business and moving it onto a national health insurance corporation will save them billions, and in fact this is one of the reasons we have such a difficult time competing in global markets - the companies we compete against, Chinese, Japanese, Germans, English, all have national health insurance, allowing them to bid lower.

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God forbid we should hold ourselves(the individuals) accountable and actually work towards EARNING the American dream, we should just elect someone who will give it to us!!!
Obama's entire message is based on self-reliance. I think you should stop listening entirely to rightwing scare-tactic Swiftboat email-hoax bullshit and listen to what he has to say. You can start by reading this:

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Economy

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 08-27-2008 at 09:43 AM.
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post #64 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
I sense an appalling lack of sincerity here, I just can't locate the source....
You don't say?
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post #65 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Black&TanW210 View Post
Can any of you tell me which policied implemented solely by President Bush that you firmly oppose. Because honestly, I have serious concerns if Barack or Hillary were elected, and the catastrophic failure this country will become.

Have any of you considered how the government is going to provide people with socialized healthcare. Can you even begin to comprehend how many billions of dollars it is going to cost? Where do you think that money is going to come from? What do you think is going to happen to the quality of treatment that we have been receiving in this country. Am I the only one left who thinks that you deserve only what you work to achieve?

Why is the democratic party so willing to sabotage the economy by thinking that they have the right to expand government to control large corporations and tell them how much they should be able to profit?

How in the hell is Obama going to provide so much for the middle class by raising taxes, and increasing the cost for the corporations that employ the working class? If the corporations have higher costs, they are going to lower their wages. Are you people completely inept? Do you really think that we need more government to solve all of our problems?

God forbid we should hold ourselves(the individuals) accountable and actually work towards EARNING the American dream, we should just elect someone who will give it to us!!!
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Originally Posted by Black&TanW210 View Post
So theres obviously nobody who can provide a response to my questions/statements. What's the matter, you all seem to have such conviction in your shared vision of the evil Bush administration, and your conviction in the proposed socialist state that will result in an Obama election in November.

Not to mention you'll grant the most important position in the free world to someone whose only experience is being a community organizer, a corrupt state senator(not to mention an avid supporter of infanticide), and a freshman Senator whose most impressive accomplishment was the number of times he voted "present".
All you really have to do is a simple search of OT to see a library of answers to your questions.

But to quickly answer your first question "...which policied implemented solely by President Bush that you firmly oppose?" Wellllllll:

Let's start with Iraq. He built a case for it's invasion bases on lies and false information, invaded a sovereign country and failed to have an exit strategy.

Let's move to Labor. He loosened safety regulations in the mining industry by stopping many inspections that directly caused the deaths of miners in three states, during five separate disasters.

Let's move to Justice. He implemented policies that circumvented the laws of the land and moved the ethics bar under the sand.

Let's move to Executive Signing Statements. Letters that directly avoid exectution of the laws of the land.

Let's move to Foreign Policy. We have gone, in the past eight years from one of the most respected to one of the most disrespected countries. The Coalition of the "Willing" is a first good example.

Let's move to Fiscal Policy. He, with his Republican Congress took a surplus budget and, in six years managed to increase the Federal Debt from $4.5Trillion to near $10Trillion. HIS Policies and HIS lack of veto action directly caused that.




Oh, and some of us have been at work since 6 this morning so we just got around to your questions. Welcome to BWOT.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #66 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:48 AM
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Such a warm welcome it has been. Do you see, the sarcasm is already starting to rub off on me. I need to go take a shower, I feel dirty.

BTW, I dont have healthcare right now, but when I did, it was because I went out and got a real job that provided it for me. Just like the rest of the people who have health insurance. Not because the government said that they needed to have it, but because they knew that perhaps their jobs were not adequate to provide it for them, SO THEY GOT BETTER JOBS.
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post #67 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Black&TanW210 View Post
So theres obviously nobody who can provide a response to my questions/statements. What's the matter, you all seem to have such conviction in your shared vision of the evil Bush administration, and your conviction in the proposed socialist state that will result in an Obama election in November.

Not to mention you'll grant the most important position in the free world to someone whose only experience is being a community organizer, a corrupt state senator(not to mention an avid supporter of infanticide), and a freshman Senator whose most impressive accomplishment was the number of times he voted "present".
Do you have proof he was a "corrupt state senator"? Avid supporter of "infantacide"? Oh, I get it, you're pro-life. The senator's position is the same one held by millions of people who years ago became tired of seeing their daughters die by a fucking coat-hanger abortion. The rest of the stuff you push is simply not borne out by history - Abraham Lincoln served one term in the US House, after which he himself served in the Illinois state senate. Harry Truman had one term as a senator, before that he was a local politician. You can make a list a mile long.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #68 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Black&TanW210 View Post
Such a warm welcome it has been. Do you see, the sarcasm is already starting to rub off on me. I need to go take a shower, I feel dirty.

BTW, I dont have healthcare right now, but when I did, it was because I went out and got a real job that provided it for me. Just like the rest of the people who have health insurance. Not because the government said that they needed to have it, but because they knew that perhaps their jobs were not adequate to provide it for them, SO THEY GOT BETTER JOBS.
We really feel bad for what we did here, can you forgive us?
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post #69 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:53 AM
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This is just going to be fun.

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Originally Posted by Black&TanW210 View Post
Im certainly not your son, and thanks for welcoming me to the deep end of the pool. I would like nothing more than to stand on your head until the bubbles stop rising to the surface.

And as for the invasion of Iraq, it was an important decision, for not only attempting to ensure the safety of American citizens, but to liberate the Iraqi people from a violent, oppressive, totalitarian state. Too bad if pussy ass leftist whiners like you thought that it cost too much money and was bad foreign policy.
So, gunner how do you feel Iraq was a threat to American citizens? No one else seems to have found them to be a threat?

If we use your "liberate" logic, which other totalitarian regimes do you want to invade next? N.Korea, Sudan, China?



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I never believed that the president did anything by himself, my point was that all you people who say that McCain would be another four years of Bush(my point to a "T" was that Bush didn't do anything on his own). Bright boy.
A president sets policy, through his Cabinet and their actions/inactions, through his surrogates in Congress and through Executive Orders and Presidential Signing Letters.

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And, as for OBL, why don't you express your own thoughts instead of trying to pretend like you know mine. I have been to Afghanistan, I have never believed that he is in Iraq, he is most likely in Pakistan.
That brings us back to invading totalitarian regimes, doesn't it.

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And the congress, if you haven't noticed, is more than willing to help Obama destroy what America once was, by socializing healthcare, and creating things like the "Fairness" Doctrine. Political correctness is now our number one policy, and it also happens to be Obamas foreign policy.
You would be one of those folks that believe that the Fairness Doctrine REQUIRES equal time instead of requiring ACCESS to equal time. Figure out the difference.

McBear,
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post #70 of 216 (permalink) Old 08-27-2008, 09:55 AM
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So what about his dealings with Tony Rezko? As for the infanticide comment, I was actually referring to his opposition to the Infant Born Alive Protection Act, which he tried to repeal. So that a baby born, after labor was induced, for a late-term abortion, would be denied medical care, and would be left to die in a storeroom or on a metal table.

Please let me apologize for being "pro-life", I'm so sorry to offend you. I am so wrong in thinking that someone who makes the decision to become pregnant should maybe, I don't know, carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. Wouldn't that be awful? Wouldn't that be just like all those poor people dying in the Emergency Room lobbies. I am such a bastard.
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