Hughes to supply telematic systems to Mercedes-Benz North America - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
We move further and further away from cars that can be built, used, restored and continued to be used for very long periods of time. The incessant use of intertwined electronics is going to mean that every Benz, from SL to C is nothing more than a commodity with a very limited shelf life as this continues.

As a good example, look at the "state of the art" W140 S Class from 1992-1999. The W220 S Class will not even maintain that long. There are already retail examples under $10K and auction prices are starting to AVERAGE $10K.
I know what you are talking about but I presume, maybe rather optimistically, that the aftermarket will step up with the reman. of oem plastics as has been done before with metals et al. All cars have to sink before climbing and very, very, few ever attain collector status, especially sedans, this is in regards to resale.
If you want me I will be down in the garage finally installing a metal and plastic brake switch on the '58 Eldo Bro, which is a part I waited nearly a month for. Plastics are indeed going to be a genuine long term liability issue, but you cannot blame the manufacturers as they know 99% of the cars they make have Charmin written all over them and will be discarded of and treated as such.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 01:07 PM
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You're an old fashioned chop shop type restorer , aren't you ?

All it means is you gonna need a bigger garage and much bigger budget.
I am the opposite of the "old fashioned chop shop restorer". I do them correctly or don't work on them at all.

You don't understand the concept of restoration. There are four discreet types of restoration. Rolling Restoration which brings a car up to driving standard. Drivers will not put out the required budget to address the newer cars parts inventory. Basic Restoration which usually takes a car and brings it to show level in original condition, usually attempting to keep as many original parts as possible on the car and using the patina of the car as part of the restoration process. Full Restoration is the no holds barred, open checkbook restoration that a client commissions to bring a car to factory condition. This usually involves many new parts. There will be a few folks that will spring for the myriad of computer modules required to deal with most of the cars on the road today. Not many. Resto-mod is the newest form which involves some levels of modification of the car, either for newer technology, different powerplant or cosmetics.

There is a fifth element, what you call chop shop and TV calls "Pimp My Ride" of Unique Whips which are nothing but gluing on parts and ruining perfectly good cars. While some are ok, they take appearance over mechanics and don't take engineering or durability into account at all.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 01:40 PM
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Just pushing your button.
I have no doubt you are better than a SoLA chop-shop.

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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
I am the opposite of the "old fashioned chop shop restorer". I do them correctly or don't work on them at all.

You don't understand the concept of restoration. There are four discreet types of restoration. Rolling Restoration which brings a car up to driving standard. Drivers will not put out the required budget to address the newer cars parts inventory. Basic Restoration which usually takes a car and brings it to show level in original condition, usually attempting to keep as many original parts as possible on the car and using the patina of the car as part of the restoration process. Full Restoration is the no holds barred, open checkbook restoration that a client commissions to bring a car to factory condition. This usually involves many new parts. There will be a few folks that will spring for the myriad of computer modules required to deal with most of the cars on the road today. Not many. Resto-mod is the newest form which involves some levels of modification of the car, either for newer technology, different powerplant or cosmetics.

There is a fifth element, what you call chop shop and TV calls "Pimp My Ride" of Unique Whips which are nothing but gluing on parts and ruining perfectly good cars. While some are ok, they take appearance over mechanics and don't take engineering or durability into account at all.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 01:57 PM
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I agreed with you but some poster try to justify their opinion of quality claim by just using metal parts instead of Carbon Fiber . Copper instead of alloys.These poster are very common in this site about their quality,or reliability claims of older model. They never consider new model can accelerate 2.6G laterally and better than their old design of 1 G at the curve. They like their old model run 0-60 9 sec better than 4.5 sce. New technology comes in at triple speed than 10 years ago, if MB do not catch those wave it will be left alone like Rolls. Luckily, those old timer is not running MB, otherwise, MB will be gone in smoke and have the same trouble as GM. some poster, even think those new tech. has gone over our head when we make decision to buy new model. The market statistics reaction just told them they were wrong but they like to use Statictics in jP power's reliability report when ever they think fit to support their view of quality and reliability.
Personal, I will not retrofit old cars when it cost more than the new one by less than 50%. It just not making sense, because I am not a collector. I let my old Porsche go because it has 240K mi and even I put a new rack & pinion into it, it will never fly pass the new 997/06. Tech. advancement will even fly faster in the future, car product cycle will be even shorter.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 05:25 PM
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
I know what you are talking about but I presume, maybe rather optimistically, that the aftermarket will step up with the reman. of oem plastics as has been done before with metals et al. All cars have to sink before climbing and very, very, few ever attain collector status, especially sedans, this is in regards to resale.
If you want me I will be down in the garage finally installing a metal and plastic brake switch on the '58 Eldo Bro, which is a part I waited nearly a month for. Plastics are indeed going to be a genuine long term liability issue, but you cannot blame the manufacturers as they know 99% of the cars they make have Charmin written all over them and will be discarded of and treated as such.
I think most of the sedans just go to the crusher, sooner, rather than later now. But the CLs, SLs, AMG models and the like are going to be a bitch to keep up for any kind of general maintenance.

MB used to say they would always have parts available for their cars. But I found out when I sourced the last two original AMG ducktail spoilers for the W124 cars in the world that they changed their mind. And that was for a now 20 year old part. I got the last two fenders for the W111 coupe in existence last year, one out of North Dakota and one out of South Africa.

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by daisound View Post
mcbear
I agreed with you but some poster try to justify their opinion of quality claim by just using metal parts instead of Carbon Fiber . Copper instead of alloys.These poster are very common in this site about their quality,or reliability claims of older model. They never consider new model can accelerate 2.6G laterally and better than their old design of 1 G at the curve. They like their old model run 0-60 9 sec better than 4.5 sce. New technology comes in at triple speed than 10 years ago, if MB do not catch those wave it will be left alone like Rolls. Luckily, those old timer is not running MB, otherwise, MB will be gone in smoke and have the same trouble as GM. some poster, even think those new tech. has gone over our head when we make decision to buy new model. The market statistics reaction just told them they were wrong but they like to use Statictics in jP power's reliability report when ever they think fit to support their view of quality and reliability.
Personal, I will not retrofit old cars when it cost more than the new one by less than 50%. It just not making sense, because I am not a collector. I let my old Porsche go because it has 240K mi and even I put a new rack & pinion into it, it will never fly pass the new 997/06. Tech. advancement will even fly faster in the future, car product cycle will be even shorter.
I agree with what you say on updates in technology as they relate to performance. But that is a different animal than reliability and sustainability. Since 99.99% of cars are used at less than 50% of their performance potential, the push for Performance, at the expense of reliability does not make sense. As an example the MB S600 is a great car, better driving than the S500 BUT, at every level of maintenance, from general upkeep to reliability to sustainability the car is weaker. You can guarantee that a major rebuild WILL occur before 80K miles on the S600 or CL600. That tradeoff is unacceptable in the long run. The ROI just isn't there.

And that brings up the lightbrite horsepower war. I have a 560SEC AMG, 25 year old technology. I drove it crosscountry from California to Kentucky last October. At the Bonneville Salt flats it tickled 155 and that was loaded with luggage and a full tank of gas. I did not even have the car set for speed. New technology is not required for driving quick.

And no production car is pulling 2.6G. A Formula 1 car is going to be lucky to tag 1.4 - 1.6 without serious AERO help to reach 4.5G] and no production car is going to tickle over 1.05 or so.

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