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post #121 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 04:10 PM
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Anyone seen the Gospels of Peter, Thomas, Mary, Judas, James, or Andrew lately? Modern christianity and the bible are little more than extensions of the mighty Roman Empire, written in its had, and based in no small part upon its pagan beliefs. Constantine should almost certainly be credited as the most influential human of the past two+ millennia, with Jesus running a distant second -- at best.

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post #122 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by concretist View Post
Some have suggested the naturalist perspective falls short because it has no explanation for the origin of things, but that is it's power.
The Theory of Evolution does not address creation, as you suggest.

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post #123 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by joelschneider View Post
Show me where I can find this proof that evolution is the only way the world was created. I have yet to see "proof" or anyone coming out and saying that evolution is the one and only way the world was created. If you give me scientific evidence showing me the world is 4.5 billion years old I will ask you to provide me with the sample data they used ( see earlier post regarding milk) and to provide the margin for error based on the sample used. And yes if re-incarnation has anything to do with the earth being formed then throw that in the mix as well.
I am surprised to hear you say that a high school student is not old enough to make a intelligent discernment between what is being taught as a fact and what is being taught as a theory. Maybe we could put the definition of theory on the board so the can tell the difference. If evolution is being taught as the only solution there is no room for discernment, Is that what you want? We shall tell them that 2+2=7 and they will like it.
This is a peculiarly specious argument and for some reason seems to be one of those argument that creationists "cling" to for dear life.

Most science, from the most accepted and simplest bits of "knowledge" to complex items like the theory of special relativity, are all theories. That you separate "facts" from "theories" in your argument is an indication you don't really care to distinguish them. A "fact" taught in school might be how to spell the words in your vocabulary. Or the facts of how our language is structured. Or some accounts of history, although those are also often presented as fact but contain bits of fiction here and there.

Science as practiced using the Scientific Method, involves forming a postulated "fact" and then testing the fact. The process NEVER ENDS. So once a postulated "fact" has been around for a long time, it is often chucked into a bucket where the "postulated" descriptive term is dropped. But that process is a custom, a human interaction that introduces a political spin on things that is not part of the Scientific Method. All you ever get from the Scientific Method is a theory that has yet to be disproved.

Now, that is true of the "laws" of thermodynamics and the basic "laws" of Newtonian physics. The fact is they have become pretty reliable tools for engineers to design a lot of things with, and therefore they are often subject to the non-Scientific Method practice of renaming them "laws."

Creationism has no pedigree of development using the Scientific Method, and the theory of evolution does. In all the world there is NO ONE who has disproved the theory of evolution using the Scientific Method. The fact that you have stated you don't believe the evidence is conclusive is more an indication of how little you understand about how thoroughly this theory has been tested and stands the test of time than it does of the veracity of the theory. Yes, there are "missing links" and holes, but until there is evidence filling the holes or connecting the gaps in our collective human knowledge that contradicts the theory of evolution, it is not disproved.

There is one more point that drives me nuts. Creationists are inspired to believe evolution suggests there is no god, or something like that, so they fight the noble battle, keeping their god alive. This is purely an argument of your own making. There are no credible scientists pursuing and promoting the theory of evolution that suggest its "proof" means there is no god. In fact, it would be much better for the religious organizations who feel threatened today by science, as the religious political leaders of yore were when Galileo came out supporting Copernicus, saying scientific observations showed the Earth orbited the Sun instead of the other way around, were to come to the realization that if god exists as they believe, why couldn't god have invented evolution as his tool? Why does the religious right in this country feel compelled to be shamed by science and suppress human intellectual capability again? Can't they learn from the past? What actual "fact" would be violated if evolution became god's choice tool to shape life on Earth?

Oh yeah. It might take away a political tool they use to manipulate the masses. Which is more important to people promoting bullshit than teaching or learning facts.

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post #124 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 04:30 PM
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The Theory of Evolution does not address creation, as you suggest.
I said some have suggested, not I suggest.
post #125 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 04:32 PM
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Well in any case, the Theory of Evolution does not address creation, and "suggest" was a figure of speech.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #126 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 07:36 PM
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Naomilla2.0 you're confused. you keep self-victimizing like somebody is holding your head under water. like I told you before. You don't have to seek the Christian God or even believe in him. that's for the Christians. and since you're not one, you don't have to worry, right? so why are you so strung out over the Christian way of doing things? It's like you want to be a Christian, but only if you can still be ignorant of the tenants of it.

I never claimed to be holier than thou. never will because we're all sinners from the poorhouse to the pulpit. don't matter. you fail to see this fact. God loves us regardless of our trangressions. he judges our hearts ultimatley, actions be damned. You can't name one person on the planet that's free of the temptation of sin to help you set your mind right about God and the Bible...not one. I put my house on it.

So judge me til your face turns purple. you can't shake my faith.
traumatized, more like.

if the rest of christianfolks are as 'enlightened' as you are and left me to my choosing, then I would have no problem at all.

The reality is that these fellow of yours just can't mind their own businesses and meddle with other peoples' affairs as in the case of missionaries in the south pacific islands.

For me, the Christian way of doing things is inclusive of that invasive proselytizing (yes, the word does exist, and I hope that your selective hearing is not as bad as some birdbrain from Kansas) and hardships faced by women seeking counseling from Planned Parenthood who cannot walk through the gates without bodyguards and subjected to grisly photos of bloody fetus

If you can separate yourself from these kookberger Christians as opposed to speaking for all aspects of Christianity, then there is hope, but if you continue to deny the existence of these Christian Talibans, then I have just wasted my time typing this (I probably did)

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馬鹿は死ななきゃ治らない。

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post #127 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 08:32 PM
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it won't change. everything that is/will happen will happen for a reason. all the famine, rape, murder, wars and rumors of wars...all there in the Bible.
If this preordained concept of the bible is correct that pretty much negates the concept of prayer.

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post #128 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 08:40 PM
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Interesting, the atheist sound just like the christians.

So Christians have no doctrine and no Holy book. I get it, you're as intelligent as the person who started the thread.
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post #129 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 08:47 PM
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So Christians have no doctrine and no Holy book. I get it, you're as intelligent as the person who started the thread.
UM, he DID start this thread.

Just because Christians have a doctrine and book does not mean it/they are correct.

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post #130 of 165 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 10:12 PM
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In conclusion.
1. I have no interest in your life and really do not care if you believe in God or not.
2. I am aware that the things I choose to believe in can not in any way shape or form be shown as factual and in your opinion seem to be ridiculous.
3. I am also aware that you feel the need to attack what you do not understand or agree with. I could also care less about that as well.
4. Christians, as a whole, are better then you, we are extremely intolerant, and do not give a rats ass if you like us or not. We have the best of both worlds, If we are wrong and there is no God, nothing happens, oh well. But if we are right! I will let you think about that.
5. All other religions are wrong. Period. Don't like it. See rule #4
6. Most of you have a small penis.

"Fat, Drunk and Stupid is no way to go through life."
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