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post #31 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by benz rider View Post
No it's not. Faith is the belief in that which is not seen. period.

are you kidding me? You don't have to experience a damn thing, to have faith. Faith isn't some tangible item that you can touch because faith comes from the heart.

that shows me that your are Atheist or Agnostic. which one?
As I said, empirical evidence precludes faith. Read what I wrote again until you understand it. You missed the meaning of a simple sentence entirely. Perhaps a minor rewrite will help:

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You are repeatedly confusing faith with experience and empirical evidence. Faith is belief without experience and empirical evidence. In the face of experience and empirical evidence, there is no faith.

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post #32 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:30 PM
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and if mankind is so solid and focused and great in his thinking, why then is the world in a fucking mess?
Thats an easy one. Look at the history of the children of Abraham and you'll find that answer. Remove the Jews, Christians and Muslims from the equation and history much less present day isn't so "messy".

I fall back on Occam's razor (That sounds worse than it is!), I think, what is the simpler explanation, a supreme being creating the universe or the universe just is. Since the universe is here and I can see it I'll go with that and follow the science that seeks to increase our understanding of how and why. Why must there be something outside the universe? Outside time? Why does it disturb you that things may just be?
It certainly doesn't help me when folks of religious bent,exhibit intolerant and immoral behavior on such a regular basis, leaving those of us who are undecided with a bad taste in our mouths. If atheism requires religion to acquire the base of morality it is only by observing what the religions have done and live otherwise.
One other thing that keeps me away from any belief in god is the fact that cultures separated by geography and/or time don't come up with the same theology. If it were so logical why don't there exist Identical or nearly so, theologies? If the european, australian and african aboriginal populations came up with similar visions of the godhead I would give the theory more credence, but they don't, and I am left with the feeling that your guess is no better than any other and no more than wild speculation based in superstition.

P.S. benz rider, you're assertions remind me of this joke;

A Kindergarten student was working diligently on a drawing in class, the teacher checking on her pupils' progress stopped and asked this girl what she was drawing. "I'm drawing god" the little girl replied, the teacher paused and said "But no one knows what god looks like" Continuing to draw and without missing a beat the girl replied "They will in a minute"
post #33 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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Your definition of faith is as breathtakingly broad and unobstructed by reason as Germanstar's love definition is simple.
God is not bound by reason. that's mankinds' way of thinking. this is why mankind remains lost and arrogant in his lack of ability to find his own way.

Mankind reasons like this - if I can't see other life on other planets then there must not be any.

God reasons like this - I know that there is life on other planets, period.
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post #34 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Ok German Star, I missed your point(in haste) while making mine. forgive me..lol

but here's one for you...since you don't believe in God, what/who do you believe in and why?

simple question.
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post #35 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:38 PM
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God is not bound by reason. that's mankinds' way of thinking. this is why mankind remains lost and arrogant in his lack of ability to find his own way.

Mankind reasons like this - if I can't see other life on other planets then there must not be any.

God reasons like this - I know that there is life on other planets, period.
You know how God reasons.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thats what I intend to reverse.

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post #36 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:50 PM
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There are only two basic emotions (love & fear), they are intrinsically primal, and have no basis in faith.


GS, I think this statement went way over peoples head. They think a complex state of being needs complex statements of explanations.






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post #37 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thats an easy one. Look at the history of the children of Abraham and you'll find that answer. Remove the Jews, Christians and Muslims from the equation and history much less present day isn't so "messy".
wait hold on, why are you taking mankind out of your equation? I thought mankind was the shit and knew everything about everything. why take them out to make your point? could it be because mankind is truly incomplete?


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I fall back on Occam's razor (That sounds worse than it is!), I think, what is the simpler explanation, a supreme being creating the universe or the universe just is. Since the universe is here and I can see it I'll go with that and follow the science that seeks to increase our understanding of how and why. Why must there be something outside the universe? Outside time? Why does it disturb you that things may just be?
God is the universe. you are merely a part of it. God just is....

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It certainly doesn't help me when folks of religious bent,exhibit intolerant and immoral behavior on such a regular basis, leaving those of us who are undecided with a bad taste in our mouths.
most people who don't believe are determined not to learn so they can believe, which brings about tension. It's a manmade mental yoke that has to be broken before they can accept the truth.

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One other thing that keeps me away from any belief in god is the fact that cultures separated by geography and/or time don't come up with the same theology. If it were so logical why don't there exist Identical or nearly so, theologies?
Again, it's mankinds arrogant way of trying mightily to rid himself of God's existence. from which, alternative religions and cults are born. an Idle mind is the Devil's workshop.

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If the european, australian and african aboriginal populations came up with similar visions of the godhead I would give the theory more credence, but they don't, and I am left with the feeling that your guess is no better than any other and no more than wild speculation based in superstition.
blame on it mankind. it's not Gods fault.
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post #38 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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You know how God reasons.
mattew 7:7


I asked for clarity years ago and got it....from God, not from mankind.
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post #39 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:56 PM
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Keep faith in confidence if you can.

-Marty


"...pour out of one vessel into another; and as those old Romans robbed all the cities in the world, we skim the cream of other men's wits, pick the choice flowers of their tilled gardens to set our own sterile plots."
-a Richard Burton
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post #40 of 69 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
There are only two basic emotions (love & fear), they are intrinsically primal, and have no basis in faith.


GS, I think this statement went way over peoples head. They think a complex state of being needs complex statements of explanations.
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