Now this Georgia thing is getting fishy - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ThrillKill View Post
Russia's is a puppet government with Putin pulling the strings. We support Georgia to a point but Saakashvili is a loose cannon.
Even a loose cannon would not be seen as stupid without reason. Someone gave him a reason. An idiot can see that Georgia could not win against the might of the Russian Bear so, pray tell, what were his motives and who were his backers?

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 11:37 PM
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So this means you thin he is stupid enough to take on the might of the russian bear? Without a little persuasion from the US? Come on wake up man the west could loose a vital oil line connection that runs through Georgia.

OIL Read my thread on something fishy abou the Georgia thing and read the links that people have put in - interesting stuff.
No.

He thought that Russia would not jump in.

He thought they weren't interested in South Osetia.

He forgot that he called someone "lilliPutin" once.

He thought wrong. And he did wrong. "Grad"s are pretty bad things to attack a city. Better than the nuke, but not much.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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I have lived through lies and deciet but this on takes the buiscut;

Tue Aug 19, 2:23 PM ET



CRAWFORD, Texas (AFP) - The White House on Tuesday flatly rejected Russian charges that NATO was being "biased" in the Georgia conflict, and renewed US demands that Moscow withdraw its forces immediately.

"I would expect them to begin an immediate withdrawal, which is their commitment. We want them to honor their commitment," spokesman Gordon Johndroe said as US President George W. Bush watched the crisis from his Texas ranch.

Johndroe rejected Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's contention that NATO's new statement on the conflict in Georgia was "unobjective and biased" against Moscow and that Russia's withdrawal may take three or four days.

"It didn't take them really three or four days to get into Georgia. And it really shouldn't take them three or four days to get out," the spokesman said, adding that Lavrov was "entitled to his opinions."

But "Russia invaded a neighbor, has said it would withdraw, hasn't withdrawn. I think they need to; so does the rest of the international community. So nothing really one-sided about that," said Johndroe.

"I think the United States and our NATO allies are staying united. And that was made clear in Brussels today. So I think the comments that he makes are inconsistent with the rest of the worldview," he added.

Lavrov earlier had criticized NATO's statement on the conflict in Georgia as "unobjective and biased" and accused the alliance of whitewashing a "criminal regime."

"The (NATO) declaration above all appears unobjective and biased because there's not a word about how all this started, why it happened, who started the aggressive action and who armed Georgia," Lavrov said at a press conference called in response to the NATO statement.

He referred to a statement by NATO foreign ministers in Brussels that condemned Russian military action as "disproportionate and inconsistent" with Moscow's peacekeeping role and said the alliance could not carry on "business as usual" with Moscow.

One day after Democratic Senator Joseph Biden, a possible vice presidential choice for his party in the November elections, said he would work to give Georgia one billion dollars in aid, Johndroe said any figure was "premature."

"It's premature for me to put a dollar figure on it now. It will be a substantial commitment by the United States to Georgia," he said.

"It's going to be a substantial commitment by the United States to Georgia for, one, immediate humanitarian assistance and then, two, reconstruction of their infrastructure that has been needlessly destroyed, and then, also, the need to help them rebuild their military," said Johndroe.

Biden said upon his return from Georgia on Monday that he would work with the White House to provide Georgia with one billion dollars in emergency aid.

"This money will help the people of Georgia recover from the damage that has been inflicted on their economy and send a clear message that the United States will not abandon this young democracy," said Biden, head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

The US Congress reconvenes on September 8 after a summer break.

Biden hoped the planned US commitment would be matched by other nations.

ERIC.

___________________________________________
"I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a friend, if you have one."
- George Bernard Shaw to Winston Churchill.

"Cannot possibly attend first night, will attend second ... if there is one."
- Winston Churchill, in response.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 01:57 AM
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Why would anyone even expect the Russians to comply with any agreement that they signed? That's not the way they think.

The only thing they respect is the sight of cold steel....
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric242340 View Post
Even a loose cannon would not be seen as stupid without reason. Someone gave him a reason. An idiot can see that Georgia could not win against the might of the Russian Bear so, pray tell, what were his motives and who were his backers?

He may have misconstrued our commitment, hence the loose cannon statement. Saakashvili will NOT drag us into another cold war.

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 08:24 AM
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From what I read, Saakashvili's popularity drops w/ every day Russia remains in Georgia and I suspect this is why they linger. Russia wants Saakashvili out of office and they can accomplish this by doing nothing. That sounds like smart politics to me.

Don't believe everything you think
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Well this seems to be the latest info:

By MANSUR MIROVALEV, Associated Press Writer
36 minutes ago



MOSCOW - Russia's parliament voted unanimously Monday to urge the president to recognize the independence of Georgia's two breakaway regions, a move likely to stoke further tensions between Moscow and the small Caucasus nation's Western allies.

The votes by both chambers of Russia's parliament, which were not legally binding, come as the White House announced Vice President Dick Cheney would travel to three former Soviet republics next week — Georgia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan.

"Russia's historic role of the guarantor of piece in the Caucasus has increased," said Boris Gryzlov, speaker of the lower chamber. "The Caucasus has always been and will remain the zone of Russia's strategic interests."

The continued presence of Russian troops in Georgia after a lightning war over the separatist regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia has sunk relations between Russia and the West to a post-Cold War low. Western nations have accused Russia of reneging on its commitment to withdraw forces from U.S.-allied Georgia.

The vice president's office described Cheney's trip, which begins Sept. 2 and also includes a stop in Italy, where the U.S. has a major base, only in the broadest terms, saying President Bush wants his No. 2 to consult with key partners on matters of mutual interest.

Experts say the Russian parliament's blessing of the Georgian separatists gives the Kremlin extra leverage as Russia tries to reassert its influence in the former Soviet republics and resist moves by Georgia and Ukraine to join NATO.

But it was up to President Dmitry Medvedev to make the final call on establishing full diplomatic relations with South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Currently, neither Russia nor any other member of the United Nations recognizes the two provinces' independence claims. Both won de-facto independence in the 1990s after wars with Georgia, and have survived since with Russia's financial, political and military support.

"Neither Abkhazia ... nor South Ossetia will be part of the Georgian state," Abkhazian leader Sergei Bagapsh told the upper chamber of Russia's parliament Monday.

Despite their desire for independence, one or both regions could eventually be absorbed into Russia.

After Georgia tried to reassert control of South Ossetia by force Aug. 7, Russian troops overwhelmed the Georgians, and for nearly two weeks occupied positions deep within Georgia.

Most of those forces withdrew Friday, although some Russian troops continue to operate near the Black Sea port of Poti and just outside the boundaries of the breakaway regions.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has called a special meeting of European Union leaders Sept. 1 to determine what steps the EU will take in terms of aid to Georgia and future relations with Russia. France holds the 27-member bloc's rotating presidency.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, however, said Monday the EU was not considering any sanctions against Moscow.

Russia's critics say the conflict in Georgia heralds a new, worrying era in which an increasingly assertive Kremlin has shown itself ready to resort to military force outside its borders.

On Sunday, a U.S. Navy destroyer loaded with humanitarian aid reached Georgia's Black Sea port of Batumi, bringing baby food, milk, bottled water and a message of support for an embattled ally.

The guided missile cruiser, carrying about 55 tons of humanitarian aid, was the first of three American ships scheduled to arrive this week.

The deputy chief of Russia's general staff suggested Monday the arrival of U.S. and other NATO warships in the Black Sea would increase tensions. Russia shares the sea with NATO members Turkey, Romania and Bulgaria as well as Georgia and Ukraine.

The steps taken by the United States "add another degree to the tension in the region," Anatoly Nogovitsyn said Monday in televised remarks.

A U.S. official said the American ship anchored in Batumi, Georgia's main oil port on the Black Sea, because of concerns about damage to the Georgian port of Poti. Russian troops still hold positions near Poti, and Georgians say the Russians inflicted extensive damage on port facilities there.

In central Georgia, a few miles west of the city of Gori, a fire tore through an oil train after an explosion Sunday, sending plumes of black smoke into the air. The cause was not clear, but Georgians have accused Russian troops of targeting oil facilities and transport links.

Georgia straddles a key westward route for oil from Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and other Caspian Sea nations — as the United States and the European Union seek to decrease Russia's dominance of oil and gas exports from the former Soviet Union.

___

Associated Press Writers Jim Heintz in Tbilisi, Georgia and Maria Danilova in Moscow contributed to this report.

ERIC.

___________________________________________
"I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a friend, if you have one."
- George Bernard Shaw to Winston Churchill.

"Cannot possibly attend first night, will attend second ... if there is one."
- Winston Churchill, in response.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-28-2008, 01:43 PM
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Western media mislead public on Georgia-Russia conflict...

YouTube - Alex Jones on Russia Today TV

Don't believe everything you think
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-28-2008, 04:53 PM
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That's a pretty starkly anti~ 'current administration policy' commentary.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-29-2008, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Now. here is an interesting extrack.

With grinding wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, an economy that could be on the brink of recession and a distracting presidential campaign, Washington is not in a great position to back up its words with action.

"Russia knows well that the US is involved in conflicts in several parts of the world where it needs Russia's support, such as Afghanistan," Zdzislaw Lachowski, Project Leader for Euro-Atlantic, Regional and Global Security at Stockholm-based SIPRI, told AP. "They think they can get away with the Georgia issue. It was very well calculated."

Calculated being the operative word

ERIC.

___________________________________________
"I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a friend, if you have one."
- George Bernard Shaw to Winston Churchill.

"Cannot possibly attend first night, will attend second ... if there is one."
- Winston Churchill, in response.
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