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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 08:44 AM
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Listen, you idiot, the US Constitution doesn't even have the words "free market" in it, and does not specify any specific economic system for the US. It does however, give the government rights of eminent domain, and specifies what the people of this country do and do not own, one of which is specific to waterways. Why don't you actually read the fucking thing? Also, if you want to work your idiot "78%" thing (I wonder if those "78%ers" live on the coasts, BTW) , maybe you need to become a Democrat and advocate direct democracy, because the US Constitution also specifies we are a representative democracy, and the War in Iraq has done a great job of showing how the majority of people feel doesn't mean squat until election day, and hey, now it's your fucking turn, bitch. And as far as "environmental wack jobs" go, why don't you move to fucking China and see what it is like to live in a place where unbridled development overrules environmentalism, the filthy fucking world you would love to live in.
The Constitution is a restrictive document that includes the Bill of Rights which LIMITS the power of government. You, on the other hand, wish to believe that if the Constitution doesn't mention it, then it must be okay to do it. Eminent domain is the right of the government to 'condemn land' for the 'common good' of the people. That was for infrastructure such as highways and roads, not fucking shopping malls and upscale communities. Nor does imminent domain give the government the right to restrict progress for the opinions of a few nut cases, like yourself. So don't preach imminent domain to me since you have no clue as to what it was provided for to begin with. Imminent domain was designed to prevent a few from stopping good progress to benefit the many. But, I see that's a concept you cannot grasp, since you think it is a one way street. And WTF does the 'War in Iraq' have to do with this issue? I think that most of that same 78%, or even more, would agree the Iraqi war was a fiasco from the get go. It's funny when the agenda pursued by 60%, 70% or 78% of the people is something you agree with, you don't hesitate to point out that when you're blowing off your steam. But when it becomes an issue you're opposed to, you seem to think it's no big deal. You can't have it both ways.

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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 08:59 AM
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Listen, you idiot, the US Constitution doesn't even have the words "free market" in it, and does not specify any specific economic system for the US. It does however, give the government rights of eminent domain, and specifies what the people of this country do and do not own, one of which is specific to waterways. Why don't you actually read the fucking thing? Also, if you want to work your idiot "78%" thing (I wonder if those "78%ers" live on the coasts, BTW) , maybe you need to become a Democrat and advocate direct democracy, because the US Constitution also specifies we are a representative democracy, and the War in Iraq has done a great job of showing how the majority of people feel doesn't mean squat until election day, and hey, now it's your fucking turn, bitch. And as far as "environmental wack jobs" go, why don't you move to fucking China and see what it is like to live in a place where unbridled development overrules environmentalism, the filthy fucking world you would love to live in.
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Ladies and gentlemen, on this cocksucking occasion, it is a privilege to address such a douchey-looking group of neocons. I can tell from your smiling scrotum scrubbers that you will support my felching program in the coming election. I promise that, if elected, there will be a dildo in every nipple clamp and two jizzles in every garage. I want to warn you against my fucking opponent, Mr. Jayhawk. This man is nothing but a fucking fuck. He has a ball busting character and is working double-dong jackhammer in glove with the criminal element. If elected, I promise to eliminate vice. I will keep the childrens movies in the public till. I promise you red-winged government, cunity taxes, and cunt schools.
Yeah, they are pretty close, aren't they.
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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 09:20 AM
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You're suggesting that FTL is actually a Mad Libs 'bot that responds to right wing posters here?

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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 09:47 AM
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Have you asked lately? A measely ass 2700 copies should be enough of a message. Especially since your whore in chief decided to play dictator and run off for summer vacation, leaving the American people in a sling for fuel prices. All you have to do is say 'drill' and the prices will go down. But, you don't get it and I don't expect you to because you are a liberal hack that despises anything with an 'R' by the name while singing the praises of cock wipes like Pelosi. Rustle up a few of your communist party denizens and I bet you could get a couple dozen more copies sold.
I think you will have a hard time proving the mention of the word "drill" has had any effect on the price of oil. And, if you were so lucky, I bet you could get most of us chant drill all day long instead of STFU to those posting drivel from the GOP gospel.

The price of oil, if it does go down and stay down will do so because the major consumers of that oil in the world, Americans, will adjust their budgets to restrict their demand if the price does not go down. That is a much easier and more logical path to show has a direct influence on the price of oil.

The rest of the industrialized world is paying a price closer to twice our price for fuel oil and gasoline, and their economies are not about to collapse. They are not having any problems with the idea that if it costs more you use less. You use other forms of transportation, you carpool, and you buy cars that sip instead of SUV's that guzzle gas, especially if you live in urban areas. The US auto industry is about to go under because they can't make a decent smaller vehicle that gets good mileage. Because the free market system in the US and their MBA decision making priorities focussed on quarterly numbers for huge bonuses that make next year's outlook or product needs or investments in technology seem so far over the horizon it isn't worth risking a nickel of bonus money.

With decision making like that you need to have some adult supervision now and then. In this case the adult point of view is to have Americans learn to conserve. That will affect oil prices much faster and for longer periods of time than chanting "drill" over and over. The next step is to use appropriate and available alternates for energy where ever possible. And the next step is to have the government fund a project in the mold of the race to land men on the moon to wean us off oil as our primary source of energy. Oil will always be needed, so it behooves us to make it available in the future by conserving it today.

Oh, and how many books have you or Jaybaugh had published and sold? Yeah, I thought so. Must make you a bigger loser than Pelosi. Jim
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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 10:13 AM
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Oh, and how many books have you or Jaybaugh had published and sold? Yeah, I thought so. Must make you a bigger loser than Pelosi. Jim
You shoulda searched first.
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post #16 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 10:55 AM
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I think you will have a hard time proving the mention of the word "drill" has had any effect on the price of oil. And, if you were so lucky, I bet you could get most of us chant drill all day long instead of STFU to those posting drivel from the GOP gospel.
You seem to be unable to understand how the real market works. If speculators 'think' that we'll drill for oil offshore, even if that oil will be unavailable for 6 to 10 years, it adds uncertainty to the market and will cause them to lose faith in oil futures as a means of profitable investment. This equals a drop in price. That couldn't possibly be a driving force behind the recent declines in price, now can it?

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Originally Posted by JimSmith
The price of oil, if it does go down and stay down will do so because the major consumers of that oil in the world, Americans, will adjust their budgets to restrict their demand if the price does not go down. That is a much easier and more logical path to show has a direct influence on the price of oil.
No disagreement with most of what you said, except, you assume demand is the only factor. It is not. You have a huge speculation going on and that is one of the MAJOR reasons oil prices have skyrocketed.

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Originally Posted by JimSmith
The rest of the industrialized world is paying a price closer to twice our price for fuel oil and gasoline, and their economies are not about to collapse. They are not having any problems with the idea that if it costs more you use less. You use other forms of transportation, you carpool, and you buy cars that sip instead of SUV's that guzzle gas, especially if you live in urban areas. The US auto industry is about to go under because they can't make a decent smaller vehicle that gets good mileage. Because the free market system in the US and their MBA decision making priorities focussed on quarterly numbers for huge bonuses that make next year's outlook or product needs or investments in technology seem so far over the horizon it isn't worth risking a nickel of bonus money.
No doubt you are correct about that. But, WHY? Has these industrialized nations put more suffocating taxes and restrictions that we have not? You bet they have. But as our prices go up, so do theirs and, again, that is speculation being the main driving force and then, demand. But, their economies are just as shaky as ours judging by the world stock markets. America has depended on methods of transportation for so long that are based in the price of fuel, we will see increases in the products we buy because of it. We buy fruits and vegetables grown hundreds and even thousands of miles from where we live instead of products supplied locally. That can't help, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
With decision making like that you need to have some adult supervision now and then. In this case the adult point of view is to have Americans learn to conserve. That will affect oil prices much faster and for longer periods of time than chanting "drill" over and over. The next step is to use appropriate and available alternates for energy where ever possible. And the next step is to have the government fund a project in the mold of the race to land men on the moon to wean us off oil as our primary source of energy. Oil will always be needed, so it behooves us to make it available in the future by conserving it today.
No one, including myself, is saying 'drill only'. But we cannot conserve our way out of this. Our population is growing along with the need for more fossil fuels and energy alternatives. Every year, we buy more and more foreign oil while prohibiting the exploration and drilling of our own domestic sources. We have to conserve, drill, and develop new energy sources. But, this argument gets lost in the drill issue.


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Oh, and how many books have you or Jaybaugh had published and sold? Yeah, I thought so. Must make you a bigger loser than Pelosi. Jim
Uh, that has got the be the stupidest thing you've said, yet. I'm not the speaker of the House nor is Jay. Hell, George Bush would sell more books than that with 28% approval rating. You seem to forget that Pelosi and congress have the worst approval rating in U.S. history, around 9%. You think THAT might be WHY she's not selling them?

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post #17 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 10:56 AM
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You shoulda searched first.
You've got one? It's been out of print for 2 years and I sold 4000 copies.

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post #18 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 11:58 AM
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You seem to be unable to understand how the real market works. If speculators 'think' that we'll drill for oil offshore, even if that oil will be unavailable for 6 to 10 years, it adds uncertainty to the market and will cause them to lose faith in oil futures as a means of profitable investment. This equals a drop in price. That couldn't possibly be a driving force behind the recent declines in price, now can it?
Speculators speculate on prices in the near term, not 6 years out. It is the near term drop in demand that has speculators backing away, not the chant of "I want to drill for oil but Pelosi won't let me" which is all that has been said so far.



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No disagreement with most of what you said, except, you assume demand is the only factor. It is not. You have a huge speculation going on and that is one of the MAJOR reasons oil prices have skyrocketed.
No doubt about the speculators, but these types are not speculating today to get rich in 6 years. They are speculating today to get rich tomorrow. And the drop in demand has made that a little less attractive to speculate on, which will hopefully put an end to the speculation. Kind of like the Tulip Mania that gripped Holland in the 1600's (Tulip mania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) when the demand went away because of high prices the high prices did too.


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No doubt you are correct about that. But, WHY? Has these industrialized nations put more suffocating taxes and restrictions that we have not? You bet they have. But as our prices go up, so do theirs and, again, that is speculation being the main driving force and then, demand. But, their economies are just as shaky as ours judging by the world stock markets. America has depended on methods of transportation for so long that are based in the price of fuel, we will see increases in the products we buy because of it. We buy fruits and vegetables grown hundreds and even thousands of miles from where we live instead of products supplied locally. That can't help, either.
You missed my first point. In spite of all that suffocating tax and the resulting high energy costs, there is an economy in Europe that is competitive with our economy, and provides the citizens of most European countries equal or better standards of living. They respond by conserving and developing other sources of energy that they don't have to import. We respond by making fun of the idea of conserving.

While conserving alone won't get us out of the jam we are in, because we have done so little to conserve to date there is a lot more to be gained by going on a conservation binge than there is by going on a domestic drilling binge. And the conservation gains continue to pay effective dividends. Once we are conserving on a par with Europe, and employ existing alternate energy exploitation schemes to the extent they do, we will be in a different position to engage in this argument. The price of oil, if the user of the lion's share of it cuts his use in half, will begin to come under control. The only real problem with conserving is that it could prove effective enough to lull us back into slumbering to the next crisis, meaning we won't have developed any really viable means to substitute other energy sources when the oil really begins to run out on us.



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No one, including myself, is saying 'drill only'. But we cannot conserve our way out of this. Our population is growing along with the need for more fossil fuels and energy alternatives. Every year, we buy more and more foreign oil while prohibiting the exploration and drilling of our own domestic sources. We have to conserve, drill, and develop new energy sources. But, this argument gets lost in the drill issue.
Actual oil prices are not going to be less for us for oil harvested from American territory. The price of oil will be as it is set by demand. I still maintain our oil deposits are strategic natural resources. Use the freaking ME oil first.



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Uh, that has got the be the stupidest thing you've said, yet. I'm not the speaker of the House nor is Jay. Hell, George Bush would sell more books than that with 28% approval rating. You seem to forget that Pelosi and congress have the worst approval rating in U.S. history, around 9%. You think THAT might be WHY she's not selling them?
Writing books and making book sales is not a selection criteria for either Speaker of the House or President of the United States. If she wrote a great book, it would sell. If she writes a shitty book it won't. It would appear she wrote a shitty book. So what?

Jim
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post #19 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 12:04 PM
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cmitch seems to think just saying you are going to drill a hole equates to "sure thing". Daily commodity markets work of the current supply and demand of a product and whether the distribution channel can handle the capacity, not some pipe dream of Caribou Land oil by some GOP crack head. The US has two major ways to improve its pricing structure on petroleum products: cut use and improve the value of the dollar. We are watching a 20% drop in oil prices due to exactly that.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #20 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-08-2008, 12:08 PM
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The Constitution is a restrictive document that includes the Bill of Rights which LIMITS the power of government. You, on the other hand, wish to believe that if the Constitution doesn't mention it, then it must be okay to do it. Eminent domain is the right of the government to 'condemn land' for the 'common good' of the people. That was for infrastructure such as highways and roads, not fucking shopping malls and upscale communities. Nor does imminent domain give the government the right to restrict progress for the opinions of a few nut cases, like yourself. So don't preach imminent domain to me since you have no clue as to what it was provided for to begin with. Imminent domain was designed to prevent a few from stopping good progress to benefit the many. But, I see that's a concept you cannot grasp, since you think it is a one way street. And WTF does the 'War in Iraq' have to do with this issue? I think that most of that same 78%, or even more, would agree the Iraqi war was a fiasco from the get go. It's funny when the agenda pursued by 60%, 70% or 78% of the people is something you agree with, you don't hesitate to point out that when you're blowing off your steam. But when it becomes an issue you're opposed to, you seem to think it's no big deal. You can't have it both ways.
The War in Iraq is used as an example on your insistence that your "78% of the people" bullshit has any relevence, it does not in our system of government. If that 78% is because 100% of Kansas sheep fuckers and other assorted midwest shitheads want it, then it's going no where under our system of government, just as much as ending the Iraq War did even though 70% of the people want out.

Eminent domain means one thing: ultimately all the land is owned by the American People. If they want it, it's theirs. And what the fuck in the Bill of Rights has anything to do with maritime drilling? Go back to your crack pipe.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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