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post #31 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post


Here is exactly what you said: "I don't believe 75% of the public is in favor, and, in fact, I don't believe 75% of the public is even aware of the issue much less the pro's and con's. That is a convenient, unsupported and illogical declaration..."

And I repeat...

Zogby International


Do you have a better sample?
This is like telling me that pumpkin on your shoulders is a human head.

I said, "I don't believe 75% of the public is in favor, and, in fact, I don't believe 75% of the public is even aware of the issue much less the pro's and con's. That is a convenient, unsupported and illogical declaration..."

If you believe there is evidence that the public has expressed its opinion on this subject it is up to you to find it and cite it. You posted a poll "of likely voters" which is hardly the same as the public. So, while it is a poll, and purports to convey how some portion of the public feels on the subject at hand, it specifically limits itself to some subset of the public called "the likely voters." Which this and other polls taken by a number of polling companies don't have any evidence is an accurate representation of the opinion of the public on this or any other subject. In fact, historical data on this type of polling suggests it is useless. Other than making unsupported claims about the public's opinion sound supported, perhaps.

Jim

As usual Jaybaugh, you would rather trade meaningful sounding worthless crap about some source of misquoted data and ignore the discussion of the reasons why drilling this oil and pumping it as soon as possible is a good idea. It leads one to believe you don't have anything to say about that because you haven't been told what that answer is yet by whoever programs your 286 processor in your head. Jim

Last edited by JimSmith; 08-03-2008 at 05:09 PM.
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post #32 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
This is like telling me that pumpkin on your shoulders is a human head.

I said, "I don't believe 75% of the public is in favor, and, in fact, I don't believe 75% of the public is even aware of the issue much less the pro's and con's. That is a convenient, unsupported and illogical declaration..."

If you believe there is evidence that the public has expressed its opinion on this subject it is up to you to find it and cite it. You posted a poll "of likely voters" which is hardly the same as the public. So, while it is a poll, and purports to convey how some portion of the public feels on the subject at hand, it specifically limits itself to some subset of the public called "the likely voters." Which this and other polls taken by a number of polling companies don't have any evidence is an accurate representation of the opinion of the public on this or any other subject. In fact, historical data on this type of polling suggests it is useless. Other than making unsupported claims about the public's opinion sound supported, perhaps.

Jim

As usual Jaybaugh, you would rather trade meaningful sounding worthless crap about some source of misquoted data and ignore the discussion of the reasons why drilling this oil and pumping it as soon as possible is a good idea. It leads one to believe you don't have anything to say about that because you haven't been told what that answer is yet by whoever programs your 286 processor in your head. Jim
And I repeat...

Zogby International

Do you have a better sample?

Don't believe everything you think
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post #33 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
And I repeat...

Zogby International

Do you have a better sample?
I think that was three strikes.. you are OUT!

Jim
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post #34 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post


Here is exactly what you said: "I don't believe 75% of the public is in favor, and, in fact, I don't believe 75% of the public is even aware of the issue much less the pro's and con's. That is a convenient, unsupported and illogical declaration..."

And I repeat...

Zogby International


Do you have a better sample?
JimSmith has a poor memory for a young man; just a few posts earlier I asserted the 75% figure and here is the Fox News/Opinion Dynamics numbers on that poll question from registered voters on 7/22-23:

41. – 46. Thinking now about the energy situation, please tell me if you favor
or oppose the following ways to reduce the country's dependence on foreign oil and make the United States more energy independent.

Favor Oppose (Don’t Know)
Increasing drilling for oil
in the United States immediately
75% 20 5


Democrats 66% 28 6
Republicans 88% 10 2
Independents 77% 18 6
17-18 Jun 08 76% 20

So that's two polls that stick JimSmith into the category of uninformed minority. NEWS FLASH for liberal, environmental wackos--you are on the wrong side of this issue and your Dem reps will cave on you in about six weeks. This is the reason for my new signature line.

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post #35 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
This is like telling me that pumpkin on your shoulders is a human head.

I said, "I don't believe 75% of the public is in favor, and, in fact, I don't believe 75% of the public is even aware of the issue much less the pro's and con's. That is a convenient, unsupported and illogical declaration..."

If you believe there is evidence that the public has expressed its opinion on this subject it is up to you to find it and cite it. You posted a poll "of likely voters" which is hardly the same as the public. So, while it is a poll, and purports to convey how some portion of the public feels on the subject at hand, it specifically limits itself to some subset of the public called "the likely voters." Which this and other polls taken by a number of polling companies don't have any evidence is an accurate representation of the opinion of the public on this or any other subject. In fact, historical data on this type of polling suggests it is useless. Other than making unsupported claims about the public's opinion sound supported, perhaps.

Jim

As usual Jaybaugh, you would rather trade meaningful sounding worthless crap about some source of misquoted data and ignore the discussion of the reasons why drilling this oil and pumping it as soon as possible is a good idea. It leads one to believe you don't have anything to say about that because you haven't been told what that answer is yet by whoever programs your 286 processor in your head. Jim
What YOU "don't believe "is only a poll with a sample size of ONE. Unlike the other two just quoted to you, yours has no scientific random sampling, and is subject to a margin of error of 100%.

We realists can never get a 100% public sampling so you just are arguing with a straw man which shows how desperate you are to win without a basis in fact.

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post #36 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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What YOU "don't believe "is only a poll with a sample size of ONE. Unlike the other two just quoted to you, yours has no scientific random sampling, and is subject to a margin of error of 100%.

We realists can never get a 100% public sampling so you just are arguing with a straw man which shows how desperate you are to win without a basis in fact.
Don't confuse Smitty w/ facts. His head might explode!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #37 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 07:12 PM
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post #38 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 07:24 PM
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I doubt that your gradiosity gives you any insight into Republican thinking.

The Bush administration keeps racking up significant victories with the new Housing bill, removal of the OCS drilling prohibition by executive order, the beginning of troop drawdown in Iraq, enforcement of immigration laws and so on. After the current congressional recess you will see agreement to allow OCS leases for drilling. 75% of the public wants it and you libs are on the wrong side of this issue. Another Bush victory coming here.
You mean the Housing Bill that Bushie promised to VETO then signed out of public view?

Or the OCS executive order that he could have removed at any point in the past 7.5 years? And he could have implemented FULL DRILLING if he and the Do Nothing Weepublican Congress had wanted to have an Energy Policy during the first six years of his administration.

Or the enforcement of immegration laws that he could have been enforcing for the past 7.5, wait, the BORDER is still a sieve.

Or the troop "drawdown" which is, in actuality ONLY the SURGE brigades that were only suppose to be in place for NINE months max [The surge promise was January 2007].

Is that the LAME DUCK successes of which you speak?

You are right, there will be an agreement on OCS. Compromise has to happen. The two folks driving it will be Obama on the Left and McConnell on the Right. There will be restrictions based on the "gang of 10" proposals that were suggested August 3 but McConnell and Bush did not want to "Compromise".

Let's see how many of those "Gang of 10" compromise proposals are included. That should gauge the Lame Duck status.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...,6233020.story

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #39 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 07:31 PM
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Obama will be driving the opening of drilling offshore? He can drive with a whiplash?

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thats what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #40 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 07:52 PM
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You mean the Housing Bill that Bushie promised to VETO then signed out of public view?Got what he needed regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Or the OCS executive order that he could have removed at any point in the past 7.5 years? And he could have implemented FULL DRILLING if he and the Do Nothing Weepublican Congress had wanted to have an Energy Policy during the first six years of his administration. Bush couldn't do anything right about energy--are you forgetting the lawsuit against Cheney meeting with oil execs? And of course, if he had lifted the executive order, he would just face the severe ambivalence of Congress, as he is now, except the $4 pump price tilts the game in the favor of drilling.

Or the enforcement of immegration laws that he could have been enforcing for the past 7.5, wait, the BORDER is still a sieve. Raids on employers have been going on for quite some time; the fence is being built, National Guard were stationed on border, border agents substantially increased.

Or the troop "drawdown" which is, in actuality ONLY the SURGE brigades that were only suppose to be in place for NINE months max [The surge promise was January 2007]. You should be happy with this and also recognize that more than surge troops are coming home and new tours are 12 months, not 15. Also, the admin is nearly finished negotiating turnovers to Iraq control.

Is that the LAME DUCK successes of which you speak?

You are right, there will be an agreement on OCS. Compromise has to happen. The two folks driving it will be Obama on the Left and McConnell on the Right. There will be restrictions based on the "gang of 10" proposals that were suggested August 3 but McConnell and Bush did not want to "Compromise".

Let's see how many of those "Gang of 10" compromise proposals are included. That should gauge the Lame Duck status.

Senators unveil bipartisan energy plan - Los Angeles Times
We won't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, now, will we?

Any OCS involvement with BHO will be simply a way for him to straddle the issue of drilling without appearing to be a flipper.

And for you who fault the recent Republican controlled congresses, just look at what the Dems have (haven't) done. The 110th Congress has passed 260 laws and 74 of those were renaming post offices. Hundreds of resolutions were pased including one to recognize soil as a "essential resource" and another to congratulate the UC-Irvine volleyball team. One resolution was to recognize June 30 as National Corvette Day. Nancy Pelosi has been writing a book.

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