Block the vote, to hell w/ the economy: Pelosi - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 09:52 AM
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Like anything Bush does now carries any weight. Even his own party wishes his tenure was already over. Jim
I doubt that your gradiosity gives you any insight into Republican thinking.

The Bush administration keeps racking up significant victories with the new Housing bill, removal of the OCS drilling prohibition by executive order, the beginning of troop drawdown in Iraq, enforcement of immigration laws and so on. After the current congressional recess you will see agreement to allow OCS leases for drilling. 75% of the public wants it and you libs are on the wrong side of this issue. Another Bush victory coming here.

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post #22 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 10:00 AM
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post #23 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 01:22 PM
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I doubt that your gradiosity gives you any insight into Republican thinking.

The Bush administration keeps racking up significant victories with the new Housing bill, removal of the OCS drilling prohibition by executive order, the beginning of troop drawdown in Iraq, enforcement of immigration laws and so on. After the current congressional recess you will see agreement to allow OCS leases for drilling. 75% of the public wants it and you libs are on the wrong side of this issue. Another Bush victory coming here.
Give us a break. The GOP leaders have given a green light to those running for office this year to break from the party bullshit talking points to save themselves. That doesn't sound like a party behind its lame-ass-duck loser President to me.

And, I would love to actually see what the logic is behind why Offshore drilling is such a great idea. We have no energy policy to speak of, thanks to GWB and the GOP for 6 of the last 7 years, so it doesn't fit into any particular strategy. By itself it is a ruse. It does nothing of value to use up oil that is inside our national borders at this point in time. That oil is a strategic natural resource, one that is limited and one that is likely going to be the motive behind the next biggest international confrontation. Leave it where we can get it and defend it when we actually need it. To do otherwise is wildly shortsighted and borders on treason - the kind the GOP seems to support at every turn - selling America to the highest bidder, provided the profits come in by the next quarter and they accrue to the next round of corporate fat cat bonuses.


I don't believe 75% of the public is in favor, and, in fact, I don't believe 75% of the public is even aware of the issue much less the pro's and con's. That is a convenient, unsupported and illogical declaration. If Congress actually held hearings and debated the nation's energy needs and how best to provide them in the future, there might be some reason to support the idea. The lack of meaningful debate and a discussion of how this supports a national energy policy is hardly a reason to support the concept.

Jim
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post #24 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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"...Poll: 74 percent support offshore oil drilling in U.S..."


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Poll: 74 percent support offshore oil drilling in U.S. : National : Naples Daily News

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post #25 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 04:05 PM
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"...Poll: 74 percent support offshore oil drilling in U.S..."


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Poll: 74 percent support offshore oil drilling in U.S. : National : Naples Daily News
Looks like a poll of likely voters ("The telephone survey of 1,113 likely voters nationwide was conducted June 12-14, and carries a margin of error of plus or minus 3.0 percentage points"), which is god only knows what. As it sounds, "likely voters" is a very peculiar category that no one seems to agree is of any particular significance or value. Unless of course the undefined group agrees with your political point of view. Hardly a poll of the entire public. Jim
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post #26 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 04:17 PM
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As I have noted a number of times, I would love to have anyone, even Jaybaugh, or especially Jaybaugh, offer to explain how drilling offshore and in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge fits into a national energy strategy that considers more than some immediate political expedient goal of looking like you are doing something to lower the price of oil. In fact, I would love to hear why lowering the price of oil is a national priority, and why that takes precedent over recognizing these oil deposits as national strategic resources that should only be tapped once the availability of Middle East oil is shut off.

While you may wish to argue about all the challenges higher fuel costs impose on Americans, I would like to know how you intend to ensure we have the energy supply we need when oil supplies really get short. And there are entire national economies and food supplies at stake. Long shipping routes will not be practical or safe. Without a plan to address those days, I am not in favor of drilling any new domestic wells.

It would seem to me the Gulf of Mexico can reasonably be made secure for US oil shipments. And our off shore areas. I am not convinced shipping from Valdez is equally easily secured. That may require a more comprehensive plan for pipeline construction.

Without a context based on facts and logic I don't see any reason to feel pressure to agree to any additional drilling. And this political prodding is not factual or logical. It is emotional and without a basis for making a reasonable decision. Bad decisions are ultimately always bad decisions. Jim
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post #27 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Looks like a poll of likely voters ("The telephone survey of 1,113 likely voters nationwide was conducted June 12-14, and carries a margin of error of plus or minus 3.0 percentage points"), which is god only knows what. As it sounds, "likely voters" is a very peculiar category that no one seems to agree is of any particular significance or value. Unless of course the undefined group agrees with your political point of view. Hardly a poll of the entire public. Jim
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post #28 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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As I have noted a number of times, I would love to have anyone, even Jaybaugh, or especially Jaybaugh, offer to explain how drilling offshore and in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge fits into a national energy strategy that considers more than some immediate political expedient goal of looking like you are doing something to lower the price of oil. In fact, I would love to hear why lowering the price of oil is a national priority, and why that takes precedent over recognizing these oil deposits as national strategic resources that should only be tapped once the availability of Middle East oil is shut off.

While you may wish to argue about all the challenges higher fuel costs impose on Americans, I would like to know how you intend to ensure we have the energy supply we need when oil supplies really get short. And there are entire national economies and food supplies at stake. Long shipping routes will not be practical or safe. Without a plan to address those days, I am not in favor of drilling any new domestic wells.

It would seem to me the Gulf of Mexico can reasonably be made secure for US oil shipments. And our off shore areas. I am not convinced shipping from Valdez is equally easily secured. That may require a more comprehensive plan for pipeline construction.

Without a context based on facts and logic I don't see any reason to feel pressure to agree to any additional drilling. And this political prodding is not factual or logical. It is emotional and without a basis for making a reasonable decision. Bad decisions are ultimately always bad decisions. Jim
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post #29 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 04:41 PM
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Zogby International

Do you have a better sample?
NO. I did not claim 75% of the American public supported anything. Someone else did, and you offered a flawed survey as support for that claim (at least that is what it seems you posted it to accomplish).

Please, Jaybaugh, explain how the drilling of known, sizeable oil deposits within our borders now, deposits that can be harvested securely in times of next to no secure oil imports that will likey come within several decades, is strategically correct for America. Please don't tell me you can't think that far ahead, or that you somehow believe it is up to our military to secure oil reserves and shipments. Jim
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post #30 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2008, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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NO. I did not claim 75% of the American public supported anything. Someone else did, and you offered a flawed survey as support for that claim (at least that is what it seems you posted it to accomplish). ...


Here is exactly what you said: "I don't believe 75% of the public is in favor, and, in fact, I don't believe 75% of the public is even aware of the issue much less the pro's and con's. That is a convenient, unsupported and illogical declaration..."

And I repeat...

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Do you have a better sample?

Don't believe everything you think

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