Congressional Dems like spoiled children turn the lights off and go home. - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ThrillKill View Post
Does anyone realize that if we were to set offshore drilling in motion this second, we would not see any of that oil until 2012 and even then, would only account for a savings of about a couple pennies a gallon?
This is nothing about the consumer and everything about Exxon profits....More Exxon profits.
Does anyone realize that if we had started drilling in Anwar when first proposed that oil would be online now?

The idea is to use this added supply as a bridge not a long term solution.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Let's look at that first paragraph first.

If they TRIED to pass legislation with Majorities of both houses of Congress and a partisan President then WHY DID THEY NOT PASS? Please see just how hard they tried.
You do realize that the minority party can prevent legislation from passing don't you? Or how about the fact that it is rare for 100% of our elected representatives to vote along party lines.

So I am not sure what point you have or are trying to make.
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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As for the second comment, we can address CURRENT needs without ANWR or OCS. THAT has been the point all along. With current leases, current NON MIDDLE EAST Oil, we can easily move to new technology in the time we would be drilling Offshore and ANWR.

All the "We can lower energy costs" talk is just political posturing. Since nothing will hit the pumps in over half a decade, there is no "current" to the Republican proposals in the Energy package. If there were, I would be for moving in that direction as I prefer to remove foreign dependence NOW but the ANWR/OCS is not the appropriate path. It is a political path.
Well if we had started dirlling in Anwar when it was first seriously propsed we would have that oil online now.

At least someone is trying to do something more than just go on vacation.

How about getting those useless asses in congress to accomplish something beyond lining their own pockets.
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:11 PM
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Does anyone realize that if we had started drilling in Anwar when first proposed that oil would be online now?

The idea is to use this added supply as a bridge not a long term solution.
Do YOU realize that if we had started R&D on Advanced Technology solutions instead of continuing to bang the drum for ANWR and OCS for the past 15 years we would not be having this discussion at all. See, that argument works both ways.

As for the bridge, if the bridge is not going to be ready for at least 7 years and new technology is ready by then, what is the point?

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Do YOU realize that if we had started R&D on Advanced Technology solutions instead of continuing to bang the drum for ANWR and OCS for the past 15 years we would not be having this discussion at all. See, that argument works both ways.

As for the bridge, if the bridge is not going to be ready for at least 7 years and new technology is ready by then, what is the point?
And if it isn't? Is your objection to drilling simply because the other party wants to?

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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Do YOU realize that if we had started R&D on Advanced Technology solutions instead of continuing to bang the drum for ANWR and OCS for the past 15 years we would not be having this discussion at all. See, that argument works both ways.
Actually it does not work both ways.

Look at the billions of dollars spent on Solar and Fuel Cells over the last number of years. Look at the huge push that started in research on Solar starting in the 1970's. Where are the technologies today? Solar is starting to become a viable option as the price oil and natural gas go through the roof. Fuel cell? Still has a good way to go.
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:17 PM
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Well if we had started dirlling in Anwar when it was first seriously propsed we would have that oil online now.

At least someone is trying to do something more than just go on vacation.

How about getting those useless asses in congress to accomplish something beyond lining their own pockets.
Everyone on both sides have been trying to get a proposal through. It is just that the Republicans want a DIFFERENT proposal and Sen. Mitch McConnell [my Senator] has been the lead obstacle in insuring that nothing gets done if the Energy bill is not addressed.


Is this the "get off their asses" work you are thinking about?

McConnell says GOP will stand firm on energy
By J. Taylor Rushing
Posted: 07/28/08 03:17 PM [ET]

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) indicated Monday that GOP senators will hold firm against any effort to pass anything besides the energy bill.

“Right now the No. 1 subject in the country is the price of gas at the pump,” McConnell said at the outset of the Senate’s last week of work before the August recess. “We think we ought to do something about that and then move on to other subjects.”

McConnell’s stance means the chamber could be frozen and unable to pass energy tax extenders, a defense authorization measure or virtually anything else at least until senators return in September after the Republican National Convention.

Jim Manley, a spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), echoed Reid’s long-held contention that Republicans are simply stalling and are uninterested in a genuine solution to high gas prices.

“As soon as Republicans decide they are more interested in doing something instead of just talking, they know where to reach Sen. Reid,” Manley said.

Democrats last week failed to pass a bill to crack down on speculation in the oil futures market, after Republicans insisted that Reid allow a more open amendment process. The GOP is pushing for an amendment that would allow them to vote on lifting the congressional moratorium on offshore oil drilling.

McConnell hedged when asked Monday if he could produce enough votes for a drilling amendment. Assuming all 49 Republican senators vote for such an amendment, McConnell would still need 11 more votes to reach the necessary threshold of 60.

The minority leader did note, however, that the defense authorization measure is usually handled in September, suggesting that there is still time to hash that out after the recess.

“When the Senate decides to accomplish things, it can do it in record time,” he said.

McConnell said he has not discussed with President Bush the possibility of calling on Congress to cut short its August recess to reopen the energy bill debate, “but if he does, I’ll be happy to be here.”

TheHill.com - McConnell says GOP will stand firm on energy

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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:22 PM
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Actually it does not work both ways.

Look at the billions of dollars spent on Solar and Fuel Cells over the last number of years. Look at the huge push that started in research on Solar starting in the 1970's. Where are the technologies today? Solar is starting to become a viable option as the price oil and natural gas go through the roof. Fuel cell? Still has a good way to go.
Both are doing amazingly well. Go do some real research. Thin film solar panels are starting to be installed on buildings to provide virtually ALL their infrastructure power. Tracking solar is working, many wells and remote site utilities are 100% solar.

Fuel cells have moved from EV1 production to where you will see pure electric cars ON THE ROAD within 24 months [that's just 12 years and with less funding than hoped]. Hybrids are starting to pop everywhere. Caddy is releasing three this fall, Mercedes is not expected to even have a straight ICE car within 5 years.

It does work both ways. We put folks on the moon in 8 years. We can do this in that time frame.

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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:34 PM
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And if it isn't? Is your objection to drilling simply because the other party wants to?
If you have read my [entirely too many] posts on the subject, you will see that I am not opposed to drilling OCS or ANWR on any other reasons besides economic.

The cost effectiveness of the projects, based on the time and resources required and the Return on Investment, both in monies and AMOUNT of oil produced does not make sense.

If the yield were to be more than a 7-12 year supply [assuming the optimistic projections of our politicians who are sponsoring this issue] the numbers would change but there is nothing to indicate there is anything more than what is optimistically projected.

So what we have is a 7-10 year development runup for an amount of oil that has a lifespan of 7-12 years after it finally starts pumping. So we don't see ANY benefit until 2014-2015 and ALL benefit is gone after 2028 or so.

It seems to me, just based on a pure systems approach, that investing all that time and energy to grab a finite amount of oil could be put to better use if it were focused on new technologies. The folks at Shell and BP seem to agree with that and have already started putting their money into those new technologies.

THEY will be getting the patents, THEY will be driving the new technology and we will be stuck in the Tar Pits if we go backwards instead of forward. This is pure economics and systems logic, it has nothing to do with which political party is sponsoring it.

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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:35 PM
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On December 15, 2005 Senator Ted Stevens, a Republican from Alaska, attached an Arctic Refuge drilling amendment to the annual defense appropriations bill. A group of Democratic Senators led a successful filibuster of the bill on December 21, and the language was subsequently removed.[10]

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