Obambi plays the race card... Again and Again and Again - Page 13 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #121 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 08:21 AM
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That perspective is exactly what the demopublicans (Bot's term) want you to have. And, as long as you and the public cling to it, there will never be the kind of change the country needs. Personally, I don't see a vote of one's convictions and beliefs as being wasted, but one for the lesser of two evils is.

So Ed, Bot is saying to vote for a 3rd party which has no chance in hell of winning, that why he and his followers can say hey current administration? Not my problem, I didn't vote for them............



So Ed, between McCain and Obama who will you vote for or will your vote be wasted as well?
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post #122 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 08:38 AM
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Ed explained it perfectly. This is not gambling and the voting booth is not your bookie.

It's about voting your conscience, not picking a winner.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #123 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 08:41 AM
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Unnecessarily narrow perspective on voting, JE. To each his own - it is a right as an American citizen, and, actually more in line with the original intent of the Constitution that there be multiple candidates to choose from - I don't even recall there being a "party" concept discussed in the Constitution. And, as I see it, "parties" are the problem. They are a perversion that is spawned by power and should be actively snuffed out whenever possible. They benefit the "party" ahead of our country and it is their charter.

So, I hope there are other candidates to vote for in this and future elections that make sense. At the moment, other than to protest, I can't see voting for the alternates either. Unless Ron Paul had a strong following, maybe, but he has not been real impressive since he was ejected by the GOP from their party's nomination game.

But voting is the issue. Vote. For anyone you like, but vote. Jim
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post #124 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 08:45 AM
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Besides, if your candidate wins or loses by 2,000,000 votes, how is your vote less wasted than by voting for the 3rd party candidate you actually support? The only wasted vote is a vote not cast.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #125 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 08:54 AM
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Ed, GS, Jim, good points indeed but will you still feel that strongly if Obama looses by 2 votes and he needed 3 to put him over and then McCain keeps the US in Iraq for another 50 or 100 years?
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post #126 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 08:59 AM
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And you believe that the likelihood of that event is greater than that of a 3rd party (or independent) victory? Seriously??

I do not support Obama's domestic agenda, if I did I would certainly consider voting for him. I am not withholding a vote for him merely as a protest. That would be childish, now wouldn't it?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #127 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 09:06 AM
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And you believe that the likelihood of that event is greater than that of a 3rd party (or independent) victory? Seriously??
If enough votes go the wrong way for 3rd party candidates and McPain draws enough of the uneducated vote then Yes I do believe it could happen, instead of just 2 or 3 vote difference it could be a couple of million votes but the result still be the same.

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I do not support Obama's domestic agenda, if I did I would certainly consider voting for him. I am not withholding a vote for him merely as a protest. That would be childish, now wouldn't it?
Yes it would I am choosing the lesser of the 2 evils and someone who actually has a chance of winning..............
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post #128 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 09:49 AM
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The republican name use to be respected and now they look like elementary kids trying to start fights over nothing. While McCain tries to say that obama is playing the race card the economy suffers, while McCain puts out ads that compares Obama to paris hilton people are losing jobs. Why cant he see that he is just hurting himself he needs to stay on the issues that concern the voters and try to hit obama were it hurts like national security, experience, and the difference between sunni and shiite muslims lol
That's a good question and there is a good answer. Axelrod and gang have built this shield of unassailability around BHO that gives him a persona of being above the fray, the new politician, the Messiah who spouts tripe, like "This is our moment, this is our time, we are the ones we've waited for." (by the way, that phrase comes from a Bono song in 2005).

The only way to pierce the shield is humor, satire and mockery--try it next time you run into someone who is so full of himself that he actually doesn't hear criticism when shouted into his ears. You can get his attention with indirection. BHO is one of those folks who takes himself too seriously and the rest of us not seriously enough. In the long run, we won't be fooled.

McCain will move to the issues soon enough, I believe. What we are seeing from BHO is the waffling that belies his inexperience and lack of core values; he is a liberal in a center-right country who is slowly finding himself out of step and out of place. He can't be elected to the left of Hillary. Don't believe that? He's more in the mold of George McGovern than JFK. He's a Michael Dukakis without a Sherman tank.

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post #129 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:38 AM
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That's a good question and there is a good answer. Axelrod and gang have built this shield of unassailability around BHO that gives him a persona of being above the fray, the new politician, the Messiah who spouts tripe, like "This is our moment, this is our time, we are the ones we've waited for." (by the way, that phrase comes from a Bono song in 2005).

The only way to pierce the shield is humor, satire and mockery--try it next time you run into someone who is so full of himself that he actually doesn't hear criticism when shouted into his ears. You can get his attention with indirection. BHO is one of those folks who takes himself too seriously and the rest of us not seriously enough. In the long run, we won't be fooled.

McCain will move to the issues soon enough, I believe. What we are seeing from BHO is the waffling that belies his inexperience and lack of core values; he is a liberal in a center-right country who is slowly finding himself out of step and out of place. He can't be elected to the left of Hillary. Don't believe that? He's more in the mold of George McGovern than JFK. He's a Michael Dukakis without a Sherman tank.
Every speech by McCain so far is about Obama said this Obama said that When is he moving to the issue again? I did not hear a McCain Plan for Energy other than attacking what Obama might be up to, have you? If so, please show us in plain English, on whatever media what McCain is proposing other than the drivel by the Jayhawk like about drilling. Show us a plan with numbers that are realistic and demonstrates the break even point where we depart from dependence on foreign oil for ever, if there is such a thing
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post #130 of 196 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
That perspective is exactly what the demopublicans (Bot's term) want you to have. And, as long as you and the public cling to it, there will never be the kind of change the country needs. Personally, I don't see a vote of one's convictions and beliefs as being wasted, but one for the lesser of two evils is.
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Ed explained it perfectly. This is not gambling and the voting booth is not your bookie.

It's about voting your conscience, not picking a winner.
That perspective is only correct when the third party folks fail to provide a candidate that has a chance.

Each time a candidate has come up to "fight" for the Presidency it has been a renegade candidate which captured the public's attention. Problem is the party [usually Independent or Libertarian] fully lack an infrastructure to support such a candidate.

So it is easy to blame the "demopublicans" who just want to "keep down the masses" but the masses have to do their part, and that just hasn't happened. So what we have had, to date is a third party that acts purely as a spoiler, siphoning off votes from one side or the other and providing the minority candidate with the win.

Once the Independents or Libertarians get their shit together on a national basis, THEN the argument that the third party vote is wasted will be nullified.

As for "It's about voting your conscience, not picking a winner." NO, it is about making a choice that is best for the country AT THIS POINT IN TIME. Choosing a Third Party candidate might be a nice point on principle but does nothing to move the country forward if it is fully well know that he/she is going to get < 4% of the vote.

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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