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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2008, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Familiar Propaganda?

I collected a few archived links from this website that OUR intelligence agencies respected a lot prior to the Iraqi invasion. The thing is now if you substitute Iraq for Iran and WMD for nuclear you will get the picture...I hope!
enjoy reading this stuff which was taken very seriously since WE had ZERO intelligence on the ground and these people pretended to know everything. Pay attention to things like: "our military source" and other bullshit phrases.
and the list goes on, check it out and go as far as you want to see the same pattern that calls us to go to war
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2008, 11:50 AM
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Also substitute names of people and names of countries and geography, history, ethnicity, competing factions and political systems and you have a point.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2008, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Also substitute names of people and names of countries and geography, history, ethnicity, competing factions and political systems and you have a point.
You know the drill
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-28-2008, 08:28 PM
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Report: Torture widespread in Palestinian jails
By KARIN LAUB and DALIA NAMMARI, Associated Press Writers
Mon Jul 28, 2:13 PM ET

RAMALLAH, West Bank - One detainee told of being beaten with pipes and having a screwdriver rammed into his back. Another said interrogators tied his hands behind his back then lifted him into the air by his bound wrists.

Two human rights groups on Monday decried widespread torture of political opponents by bitter Palestinian rivals Hamas and Fatah, and Associated Press interviews with three victims and a doctor backed the reports of abuse.

The findings emerged as the two sides carried out fresh arrest sweeps in the West Bank and Gaza ‚ÄĒ highlighting deep tensions in the Palestinian territories after a flare-up in violence over the weekend.

In the West Bank on Monday, the security forces of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas rounded up more than 50 suspected Hamas supporters, including mosque preachers and intellectuals, in retaliation for a similar sweep of Fatah loyalists in Gaza, set off by a bombing that killed five Hamas members Friday.

Hamas violently seized power in Gaza in June 2007, leaving the Islamic militant group in charge of the coastal territory and Abbas' forces controlling the West Bank.

The Palestinian human rights group Al Haq said Monday that arbitrary arrests of political opponents have been common since Hamas' takeover of Gaza, with each side trying to defend its turf.

"Arrests for political reasons haven't stopped for a second," Al Haq director Shawan Jabarin told reporters. He estimated that before the latest sweeps, more than 1,000 people had been seized by each side.

An estimated 20 to 30 percent of the detainees suffered torture, including severe beatings and being tied up in painful positions, said Jabarin, citing sworn statements from 150 detainees.

He said three died in detention in Gaza and one in the West Bank.

"The use of torture is dramatically up," added Fred Abrahams, a senior researcher for Human Rights Watch, a U.S.-based group that is releasing its own report on abuse this week.

Jabarin said that while he had no proof of an official torture policy, he believed political leaders were indirectly encouraging abuse by looking the other way.

Abbas' prime minister, Salam Fayyad, acknowledged "shortcomings," but said human rights violations have decreased. "I'm not defending anyone, but I can assure you that we have treated flaws and don't allow violations. The upcoming reports will be better," Fayyad said.

In Gaza, Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum acknowledged "mistakes" were made by the Hamas forces, but said that unlike in the West Bank, violators were increasingly being punished. He also accused the Fayyad government of trying to destroy Hamas in the West Bank with U.S. backing.

Human Rights Watch said Abbas' forces need to come under closer scrutiny because of the international support they enjoy. Funding of Abbas' forces should be linked to an improvement in the human rights record, Human Rights Watch said.

Two branches of the Palestinian security, the national forces and the civil police, receive training from the U.S. and Europe, respectively. Neither force was cited in the Al Haq report as being abusive, and in both cases, human rights training is part of the curriculum.

"The Palestinians themselves are looking to restructure the security force into a more accountable, transparent force," said Colin Smith, who leads the European effort.

The U.S. State Department said it had not seen the reports. "However, claims such as this obviously concern us greatly," said spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos. "This is why it's so important to establish a situation where we can provide for the security of all Palestinians."

On the streets, spiraling Hamas-Fatah tensions are setting the tone. The latest round began Friday evening, when a car bomb killed five Hamas members and a 6-year-old girl in Gaza City. Hamas blamed Fatah, which denied involvement, and rounded up some 200 Fatah supporters.

On Monday, Fatah struck back. Abbas' forces set up roadblocks across the West Bank city of Nablus, checking motorists' names against lists of wanted people. Intellectual Abdel Sattar Qassem, a frequent Abbas critic, was taken from his home, his family said.

Nathera al-Qouni stood outside Nablus' Jneid prison, waiting to hand clothes to her 35-year-old son Mustafa al-Qouni, who was arrested at a checkpoint. "He is not Hamas, he is just a mosque preacher," she said.

Al Haq described methods used by interrogators in both territories. Commonly, detainees' heads are covered by sacks and their hands tied behind their backs. They are made to stand for hours. Those who move risked beatings on arms, legs and the soles of feet. Other methods included threats, humiliation and isolation in tiny cells.

Three ex-detainees ‚ÄĒ two from the West Bank village of Salem and one from Gaza ‚ÄĒ gave similar accounts to the AP.

Jabour, a 33-year-old construction worker, said he was detained on Nov. 17 by military intelligence in Nablus, near Salem. He said he was asked where he had hidden the automatic rifle of his late brother, a member of the Hamas military wing killed by Israel in 2002.

Jabour insisted he had no ties to Hamas and did not know of a weapon.

He said that for the next six days, he was beaten severely with sticks, pipes and fists, including on the soles of his feet. His legs became so swollen and his feet so sore that he couldn't stand, he said.

Jabour said he was taken to Nablus' Rafidiyeh Hospital after an interrogator rammed a screwdriver into his back, making him pass out.

Dr. Marwan Jayousi, who examined Jabour, told the AP that his legs were heavily bruised and very swollen. "There were a lot of marks of beatings by sticks, on his back, on his scapula, shoulders, and it was painful," the physician said.

Jabour was released without charge several days later.

Hosni Jabara, 50, also from Salem, said he was arrested by the Preventive Security Service in Nablus on Jan. 28, and was tied up in painful positions off and on for 32 days.

At times, he was pulled off the ground by a rope hanging from the ceiling and attached to his hands tied behind his back, Jabara said. He said he told interrogators he's a proud member of Hamas, but that he has no knowledge of weapons, and he eventually was released.

In Gaza, a Fatah supporter said he was beaten severely by Hamas agents for several hours, until he lost consciousness and had blood streaming down his face. After initially agreeing to be quoted and photographed, he withdrew permission, saying he had received new threats from Hamas.

___

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-28-2008, 09:09 PM
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hey bot, we legitimized these practices with our actions at abu ghraib. aren't u just proud?



in political asylum
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-29-2008, 06:00 AM
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hey bot, we legitimized these practices with our actions at abu ghraib. aren't u just proud?
You equate unsanctioned fraternity hazing in Abu Graib with that? Wow.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-29-2008, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Bot as usual trying to drown the main point of a thread just so he can kiss up to whomever he's apologizing for on that day.
The thread was clearly about Israel's hand in helping manipulating the intelligence we were seeking prior to the Iraqi invasion but I guess this truth hurts Bot so much that he had to bring a totally unrelated article just to create another pole so people will forget the main point but rather start slinging shit through confusion.
Bot, it's clear as day what your "DRILL" is, that's why I predicted you would do just this. Notice my first response to you, it was very predictable.
So now, what else do you have in your arsenal to make a mockery of a serious issue?
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-29-2008, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by drewprof View Post
Bot as usual trying to drown the main point of a thread just so he can kiss up to whomever he's apologizing for on that day.
The thread was clearly about Israel's hand in helping manipulating the intelligence we were seeking prior to the Iraqi invasion but I guess this truth hurts Bot so much that he had to bring a totally unrelated article just to create another pole so people will forget the main point but rather start slinging shit through confusion.
Bot, it's clear as day what your "DRILL" is, that's why I predicted you would do just this. Notice my first response to you, it was very predictable.
So now, what else do you have in your arsenal to make a mockery of a serious issue?
It sends you up a tree when your Koolaide is undrinkable, doesn't it?

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-29-2008, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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It sends you up a tree when your Koolaide is undrinkable, doesn't it?

B
Koolaid? Let's see: Was the intelligence fed to us by the Israelis that we pay billions in bribes any good? Just answer this then I will tell you what color was that Koolaid
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2008, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
You equate unsanctioned fraternity hazing in Abu Graib with that? Wow.

B
Wow. Where did you ever get the idea what happened at Abu Graib was unsanctioned by the White House? Might have been before they had their book of high powered political lawyering neatly stacked up, with legal opinion after legal opinion that has since been found to be the worthless political blathering of a lawyer living at the Bush taint with Jaybaugh, but it was never done other than on purpose with the White House's blessing, and in good faith, mind you. And, until the book of opinions they wrote was determined to be worthless, I am sure Bush and company would find your equating their efforts to physically and mentally squeeze answers out of Iraqis on where the WMD were, and so forth, to "unsanctioned fraternity hazing" less than complimentary. That shit was supposed to be special, sanctioned by the President of the United States, torture, done in good faith because GWB told us so and he had the authority to make such decisions as "The Decider." Jim
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