War cost in constant dollars - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
War cost in constant dollars

Iraq war's total cost nearing Vietnam's price tag
By CHRISTINE SIMMONS, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The total cost of the Iraq war is approaching the Vietnam War's expense, a congressional report estimates, while spending for military operations after 9/11 has exceeded it.

The new report by the Congressional Research Service estimates the U.S. has spent $648 billion on Iraq war operations, putting it in range with the $686 billion, in 2008 dollars, spent on the Vietnam War, the second most expensive war behind World War II. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the U.S. has doled out almost $860 billion for military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere around the world.

All estimates, adjusted for inflation, are based on the costs of military operations and don't include expenses for veterans benefits, interest on war-related debts or assistance to war allies, according to the nonpartisan CRS.

The report underscores how the price tag has been gradually rising for the war in Iraq, which began in March 2003. In late 2002, then-White House budget director Mitch Daniels estimated the Iraq war would cost $50 billion to $60 billion. A year later, L. Paul Bremer, then-chief of the U.S. occupation government in Iraq, said the war would cost $100 billion.

Yet the Iraq war has consumed less of the nation's gross domestic product than other pricey conflicts. The Iraq war's costs represented 1 percent of GDP in the peak year of the war. World War II, with a $4.1 trillion price tag in 2008 dollars, was nearly 36 percent of GDP and the Vietnam War was 2.3 percent of GDP in that wars' peak years.

The report says comparisons of war expenses over hundreds of years "are inherently problematic" because of varying definitions of war costs. For example, the report's figures for the Vietnam War are Defense Department estimates of the incremental costs of military operations — the costs of war activities more than the normal, day-to-day costs of a standing military force. The costs for post 9/11 military operations are estimated from Congress-appropriated amounts and Defense Department reports.

The CRS report warns that comparisons of costs in inflation-adjusted prices are a "very rough exercise."

"It is difficult to know what it really means to compare costs of the American Revolution to costs of military operations in Iraq when, 230 years ago, the most sophisticated weaponry was a 36-gun frigate that is hardly comparable to a modern $3.5 billion destroyer," researchers wrote.

Here are the report's estimated costs of major wars, in 2008 dollars, and their costs as a percentage of GDP in each of their peak years:

_American Revolution: $1.8 billion; GDP figure not available

_War of 1812: $1.2 billion; 2.2 percent

_Civil War, Union: $45.2 billion; 11.3 percent

_Civil War, Confederacy: $15.2 billion; GDP figure not available

_World War I: $253 billion; 13.6 percent

_World War II: $4.1 trillion; 35.8 percent

_Korean War: $320 billion; 4.2 percent

_Vietnam War: $686 billion; 2.3 percent

_Gulf War: $96 billion; 0.3 percent

_Iraq war: $648 billion; 1 percent

_Afghanstian/Global war on terror: $171 billion; 0.3 percent

_Post 9/11 domestic security: $33 billion; 0.1 percent

_Post 9/11 operations: $859 billion; 1.2 percent

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
Botnst is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 10:08 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
With the exception of WW2, we have spent the most money on Ties and Loses

Wars
  • American Revolution $1,800,000,000 1776 W
  • War of 1812 $1,200,000,000 1812 W
  • Civil War, Union $45,200,000,000 1861 W
  • World War I $253,000,000,000 1917 W
  • World War II $4,100,000,000,000 1941 W
  • Gulf War $96,000,000,000 1991 W
  • Korean War $320,000,000,000 1951 T
  • Iraq war $648,000,000,000 2003 T
  • Vietnam War $686,000,000,000 1963 L
OPS
Afghanstian/Global war on terror $171,000,000,000 2001 H
Post 9/11 domestic security $33,000,000,000 2001 2
Post 9/11 operations $859,000,000,000 2001 2

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 10:12 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
"It is difficult to know what it really means to compare costs of the American Revolution to costs of military operations in Iraq when, 230 years ago, the most sophisticated weaponry was a 36-gun frigate that is hardly comparable to a modern $3.5 billion destroyer," researchers wrote.
True, 230 years ago the enemy had a Navy.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 10:19 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Jul 2007
Vehicle: 1973 450 SL
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 5,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
With the exception of WW2, we have spent the most money on Ties and Loses

Wars
  • American Revolution $1,800,000,000 1776 W
  • War of 1812 $1,200,000,000 1812 W
  • Civil War, Union $45,200,000,000 1861 W
  • World War I $253,000,000,000 1917 W
  • World War II $4,100,000,000,000 1941 W
  • Gulf War $96,000,000,000 1991 W
  • Korean War $320,000,000,000 1951 T
  • Iraq war $648,000,000,000 2003 T
  • Vietnam War $686,000,000,000 1963 L
OPS
Afghanstian/Global war on terror $171,000,000,000 2001 H
Post 9/11 domestic security $33,000,000,000 2001 2
Post 9/11 operations $859,000,000,000 2001 2
You're calling Iraq a tie, Harry Reid calls it a loss. You are both premature and I believe and hope you will be dining on crow.

Charter member of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy and proud of it.

God Bless the America we're trying to create.
--Hillary Rodham Clinton
bottomline1 is offline  
post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-25-2008, 10:42 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
You're calling Iraq a tie, Harry Reid calls it a loss. You are both premature and I believe and hope you will be dining on crow.
I call it a tie because I honestly do not believe there is a "win" option available. There was at one time but that time is passed. That is not a political answer, it is a strategic military answer.

There are options where we can exit with degrees of grace. But the various reasoning for going in are so tarnished that none now have a defined end game.

And when you include the current binding of the Shiite influences of Iraq and Iran, a "win" seems further and further away. I am sure nobody would consider an Iraqi alliance with Iran to be a win yet that democratically elected option certainly exists as a probability rather than a possibility.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2008, 07:44 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
elau's Avatar
 
Date registered: Oct 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
You're calling Iraq a tie, Harry Reid calls it a loss. You are both premature and I believe and hope you will be dining on crow.
Define "win". I bet you will be the one eating crow. Hint: we have quite a few examples in our recent history.

'95 R129
'04 G35.5 BS
'10 X204
elau is offline  
post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2008, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
"Win" is a stable, non-hostile, democracy-prone, pluralistic Iraq.

It could get there.
--------------------------------------------------------
I have been reading recently about the Korean War. OMG, what a freaking ill-conceived, poorly executed and ignoble enterprise that was for the USA. A terrible waste of resources and human beings.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
Botnst is offline  
post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2008, 09:44 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
"Win" is a stable, non-hostile, democracy-prone, pluralistic Iraq.

It could get there.
--------------------------------------------------------
I have been reading recently about the Korean War. OMG, what a freaking ill-conceived, poorly executed and ignoble enterprise that was for the USA. A terrible waste of resources and human beings.
Maybe, but after how long and what price? And if the Iraqis don't seem to put much value on it for themselves who are we to tell them they are wrong? And, frankly, why do we care and why is it our charter to fix them?

Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2008, 09:54 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
With the exception of WW2, we have spent the most money on Ties and Loses

Wars
  • American Revolution $1,800,000,000 1776 W
  • War of 1812 $1,200,000,000 1812 W
  • Civil War, Union $45,200,000,000 1861 W
  • World War I $253,000,000,000 1917 W
  • World War II $4,100,000,000,000 1941 W
  • Gulf War $96,000,000,000 1991 W
  • Korean War $320,000,000,000 1951 T
  • Iraq war $648,000,000,000 2003 T
  • Vietnam War $686,000,000,000 1963 L
OPS
Afghanstian/Global war on terror $171,000,000,000 2001 H
Post 9/11 domestic security $33,000,000,000 2001 2
Post 9/11 operations $859,000,000,000 2001 2
Very impressive figures, all constant Fy2008 dollars and all. We ought to go look at what makes up the economy in each of those periods. Today we have an economy that is a lot more of the "Paper Tiger" than it once was. We used to be the seat of manufacturing in the world and now we are about to ensure we hire cheap labor in other parts of the world to everything, even construction projects inside our borders. Back when we funded WWII the economy was not in danger of being overtaken by China's interests.

There may not be a statistic for what I am getting at, but we were a different nation with a different work ethic and a different economy in the past. So, for me the constant dollar argument is moot. Nice statistical manipulation but it is useful for little more than suggesting the burden is proportionally less. WWII was also a different war. If Iraq is the center of the GWOT, then we should be adding Afghanistan, Iraq and all the Homeland Security bullshit expenses into a single lump and assessing that against prior wars. Or we can break up the expense of WWII into the cost of overturning the Japanese attempt to invade us, and then fighting the Bush family's role model, Hitler, in Europe, which for the purpose of making a point, should arbitrarily not include the efforts in Africa, and possibly Italy and Spain. Just to make the total smaller. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2008, 10:22 AM
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
"Win" is a stable, non-hostile, democracy-prone, pluralistic Iraq.

It could get there.
--------------------------------------------------------
I have been reading recently about the Korean War. OMG, what a freaking ill-conceived, poorly executed and ignoble enterprise that was for the USA. A terrible waste of resources and human beings.

At our kids' expenses of course
DP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Cost of War DestroyerW140 Off-Topic 37 09-25-2006 10:54 AM
    War has cost 100,000 Iraqi lives: Lancet study GeeS Off-Topic 44 09-24-2005 11:10 PM
    Anti-Iraq War Soldiers form PAC, begin airing new ad against the War FeelTheLove Off-Topic 8 10-15-2004 12:02 PM
    Tomorrow, will it be war or not? War means new SLK sales will trickle. kls 023 R170 SLK-Class 13 03-17-2003 11:17 AM
    Dennis, "spent" the day in Boston yesterday, 35 dollars for parking, 14 dollars for food. OUCH.! John B -MA R170 SLK-Class 8 03-21-2001 07:55 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome