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post #51 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 02:57 PM
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Oooh, look - tripped over another $6 billion right here...

Tax breaks for billionaires: Loophole for hedge fund managers costs billions in tax revenue
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post #52 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 02:58 PM
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^ Quite the little Democrat now, aren't you? How 'bout we bail out SS and eliminate our national debt before even one more handout program is initiated?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #53 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 03:09 PM
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^ Quite the little Democrat now, aren't you? How 'bout we bail out SS and eliminate our national debt before even one more handout program is initiated?
Social (in)Security is the WORST financial product ever administrated. If a private organization managed SS half as bad as our government has, they'd be under the prison. The only way to save SS is to get it away from the government.

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post #54 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 03:37 PM
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Social (in)Security is the WORST financial product ever administrated. If a private organization managed SS half as bad as our government has, they'd be under the prison. The only way to save SS is to get it away from the government.
Congress is struggling to make retirement benefits portable -- a noble idea.

Don't we all think that the government should obey its own rules? Let's make SS portable, too.

Farking Demopublicans.

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post #55 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 06:54 PM
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Here is the kind of thing that disturbs me about Obama, even more than questionable health care initiatives.



Now really, it's a lovely idea and all, anything to help the kids and ease the financial burden of parents trying to put their kids through school, but this is hardly the time to initiate "$10 billion a year" giveaways.
Hmm, bet its gonna be for black kids only. Bet ya!.

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post #56 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 07:10 PM
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Here is the kind of thing that disturbs me about Obama, even more than questionable health care initiatives.



Now really, it's a lovely idea and all, anything to help the kids and ease the financial burden of parents trying to put their kids through school, but this is hardly the time to initiate "$10 billion a year" giveaways.
On the other hand, if it increases skills in the US and keeps both white and blue collar jobs from moving to India or China or Brazil, that is a very small price to pay for a ROI that can pay back. NOW, I would string that with some requirements that there be jobs available by reductions of H1B and removal of tax credits for offshoring of US jobs. Keep the taxes in country then that cycle might make some real sense.

By itself, it could be simply a giveaway with minimal ROI. With the right management, it could work well.

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post #57 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 07:13 PM
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I have looked at the plans out there - not in great depth and not in awhile. I would say the argument of whether or not it is being nationalized is one of semantics.

What Clinton enacted concerning healthcare reforms has had many negative impacts and the newest plans are much more ambitious.

There are two things to keep in mind:
1) The law of unintended consequences
2) If you really want to screw something up involve the gov't
Fear, Uncertainty and Dread. Great tools. But they don't solve the problem. And there are many more than two things to keep in mind, by the way.

What things that Clinton enacted concerning healthcare have had negative impacts? And what correlation do those acts have to the current plans that have not even touched the floor of Congress?

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post #58 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 07:19 PM
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Social (in)Security is the WORST financial product ever administrated. If a private organization managed SS half as bad as our government has, they'd be under the prison. The only way to save SS is to get it away from the government.
You mean put it someplace like Bear Stearns or Goldman Sachs or Lehman Brothers or Morgan Stanley and let the "PROS" handle it? I believe that was the Republican solution until just before the wheels came off the Financial Sector's slightly dated pimpmobile. I haven't heard much about that plan since the dominoes started falling.

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post #59 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 07:22 PM
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^ Quite the little Democrat now, aren't you? How 'bout we bail out SS and eliminate our national debt before even one more handout program is initiated?
Just illustrating the point that $10 billion is nothing these days. Makes you wonder if the uber-wealthy were able to get big(ger) tax breaks for contributions to select programs, such as ones the President specifically champions, would they prefer that to just dumping their money in the big pile to be spent indiscriminately by whatever assholes happen to be in congress at the time.

At least that's what it makes me wonder...today...
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post #60 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-16-2008, 07:24 PM
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On the other hand, if it increases skills in the US and keeps both white and blue collar jobs from moving to India or China or Brazil, that is a very small price to pay for a ROI that can pay back. NOW, I would string that with some requirements that there be jobs available by reductions of H1B and removal of tax credits for offshoring of US jobs. Keep the taxes in country then that cycle might make some real sense.

By itself, it could be simply a giveaway with minimal ROI. With the right management, it could work well.
Sorry, you don't spend money you don't have. That's all there is to it. You can rationalize it from now 'til doomsday, but it belies a mindset that is wrong for the times and the horrific state the Bush administration will have left our country in.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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