Bush's Third Term... * la Obambi - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 01:09 PM
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"The untold story of the Bush administration is the deliberate annihilation of the Reaganite, small-government wing of the Republican Party," said Michael Greve, director of the Federalism Project at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. "A lot of people are very bitter about it."


The left often lumps these factions together, but the Iraq war and President Bush's "compassionate conservatism" that led to an expansion of government have ruptured the coalition. Many conservatives are aghast at the rise in spending and debt under the Bush administration, its expansion of executive power, and what they see as a trampling of civil liberties and a taste for empire.


"People don't understand that there has always been a small but very significant element of conservatives who have been against the war from day one and who, like me, also hate George Bush and think he's the most incompetent president in American history," said Bruce Bartlett, a supply-side economist who coined the term Obamacons. "The few people who are slavishly pro-Republican, live or die, slavishly pro-Bush like the Weekly Standard crowd, have gotten lot more publicity than they deserve."


David Friedman, economist at Santa Clara University and son of Nobel-winning economist Milton Friedman: "Bush was elected on a pro-market, small government platform and proceeded to greatly expand the size of government - and not only in the form of military spending. His view of the legitimate power of the executive branch, including the authority to deliberately violate federal law, I find frightening. Perhaps, if we are lucky, Obama will turn out to be the anti-Bush."
Dang kiddies, the Shrinking28 is well...starting to look like a dot in the rear view mirror, getting smaller as every mile goes by.

So the question is, Is Obama actually moving his core positions or are people finally realizing, after the spotlight of the campaign has shown that he is not the far left liberal that the Rushites were saying all along?

One way to find out would be to have read his books and position papers instead of assuming what the popular press is saying is complete.

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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 01:15 PM
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Sorry, books later. For now just having film clips from time A to time B is sufficient to watch him change.

Charter member of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy and proud of it.

God Bless the America we're trying to create.
--Hillary Rodham Clinton
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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Obama is moving rapidly to the political center-right because this country will not elect a flaming liberal and he knows it. His emphasis recently has been to campaign in those small electoral states in the West, such as Colorado, who have seldom or never voted for a liberal Democrat presidential candidate. Once elected Obama will govern as a flaming liberal, full-bore ahead. My $.02 in change.
He is clearly exhibiting the courage of his convitions...

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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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Dang kiddies, the Shrinking28 is well...starting to look like a dot in the rear view mirror, getting smaller as every mile goes by.

So the question is, Is Obama actually moving his core positions or are people finally realizing, after the spotlight of the campaign has shown that he is not the far left liberal that the Rushites were saying all along?

One way to find out would be to have read his books and position papers instead of assuming what the popular press is saying is complete.
God bear! You really do live in a liberal dreamworld.

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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 01:25 PM
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God bear! You really do live in a liberal dreamworld.
Do you ever see pendulums in your dreams?

Actually, I pretty much live in a very moderate world. But we covered that on another thread.

Repeat after me, EVERYONE LEFT OF BUSH AND RUSH ARE NOT ALWAYS LIBERAL
Keep practicing that. After January you might need to actually understand it.

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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 01:27 PM
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Sorry, books later. For now just having film clips from time A to time B is sufficient to watch him change.
Ahhh! The key word to you cunning plan. CLIP. Skip the book, go to Cliff Notes, same dif. This explains much.

Try comprehensive understanding. It's just a National election that might just be a major shift.

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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 07:08 PM
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Think he'll be vilified by the left for suggesting such a thing?
Only the Good Lord knows.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 07:30 PM
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Think he'll be vilified by the left for suggesting such a thing?
Not remotely. Look at the words and the meaning. He is not using Religion to tell people how to run their lives or what lifestyles they must choose. He is not using Religion, or the money that backs it to push a Conservative Social Agenda that seeks to bring religious teaching to everyone.

What his plans are, and again they have been published for a while, are to utilize the Religious community in an even more organized fashion to help deal with poverty, hunger and crime. That is a far cry from pushing an "anti gay" or Conservative Social Engineering agenda.

The folks on the left have been doing this for decades, sometimes organized, sometimes as personal commitments. This initiative just takes if further. Nobody on the left will argue with it, balk or vilify it one bit. It is well within the goals of folks on the Left to try and help those who are least able to help themselves.

The folks who might have a hard time are the Conservative Christian Evangelicals who will find that they are not in the driver's seat for this and that their social engineering is not part of the deal.

If this is the big brouhaha of Obama moving to the center to Religious groups, he has NOTHING to worry about.


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Sen. Barack Obama said Tuesday that Washington needs to draw on faith-based groups to solve the challenges the country is facing, "from saving our planet to ending poverty."

Obama said that change comes from the bottom up, and "few are closer to the people than our churches, synagogues, temples and mosques."

"I'm not saying that faith-based groups are an alternative to government or secular nonprofits. And I'm not saying that they're somehow better at lifting people up. What I'm saying is that we all have to work together -- Christian and Jew, Hindu and Muslim, believer and nonbeliever alike -- to meet the challenges of the 21st century," he said in Zanesville, Ohio.

Obama praised faith-based efforts and proposals by former President Clinton, former Vice President Al Gore and President Bush, but he said the Bush administration's plan never fulfilled its promise to "rally the armies of compassion."

"Support for social services to the poor and the needy have consistently been underfunded," he said.

"Rather than promoting the cause of all faith-based organizations, former officials in the [Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives] have described how, at times, it was used to promote partisan interests," he said, adding that as a result, smaller groups have been shortchanged.

Obama said the relationship between the White House and grass-roots groups "has to be a real partnership, not a photo-op."

The presumptive Democratic nominee detailed his plan to expand Bush's faith-based programs and establish a new Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships.

"The new name will reflect a new commitment," he said.

The council will strengthen nonprofit religious and community groups by providing funding and making it easier to access "the information and support they need to run that program," he said.

Obama said his proposal will respect the separation of church and state. Under his plan, groups accepting federal grant money cannot use the funds "to proselytize to the people you help" and employees cannot be hired or fired on the basis of religion.

Additionally, federal dollars going to places of worship can be used only on secular programs.

Obama touched briefly on this role of faith in his life, pointing out that he "didn't grow up in a particularly religious household."

He said his experience in Chicago, Illinois, showed him how faith and values could be an anchor in his life.

"In time, I came to see my faith as being both a personal commitment to Christ and a commitment to my community; that while I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work."
Obama focuses on faith; McCain slams earmarks in crime speech - CNN.com

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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Not remotely. Look at the words and the meaning. He is not using Religion to tell people how to run their lives or what lifestyles they must choose. He is not using Religion, or the money that backs it to push a Conservative Social Agenda that seeks to bring religious teaching to everyone.

What his plans are, and again they have been published for a while, are to utilize the Religious community in an even more organized fashion to help deal with poverty, hunger and crime. That is a far cry from pushing an "anti gay" or Conservative Social Engineering agenda.

The folks on the left have been doing this for decades, sometimes organized, sometimes as personal commitments. This initiative just takes if further. Nobody on the left will argue with it, balk or vilify it one bit. It is well within the goals of folks on the Left to try and help those who are least able to help themselves.

The folks who might have a hard time are the Conservative Christian Evangelicals who will find that they are not in the driver's seat for this and that their social engineering is not part of the deal.

If this is the big brouhaha of Obama moving to the center to Religious groups, he has NOTHING to worry about.
I dunno, Bear, sounds a lot like:

Dateline: 01/30/01

As he promised during the campaign, President Bush launched his "faith-based" initiative on Monday by establishing a White House office to assist and encourage faith-based organizations is seeking federal funds to combat problems like drug addiction and homelessness.

In a first executive order, Bush created the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. University of Pennsylvania political science professor John Dilulio was named as the head of the new office.

A second related order relieved regulations within the departments of Justice, Housing and Urban Development, Health and Human Services, Labor and Education which, according to the President, made it difficult for private organizations from seeking federal funds.

In a White House announcement, President Bush stated, "It is one of the great goals of my administration to invigorate the spirit of involvement and citizenship. We will encourage faith-based and community programs without changing their mission. We will help all in their work to change hearts while keeping a commitment to pluralism."

Fending off criticism that the new White House office violated separation of church and state as provided for in the "establishment clause" of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution, the Bush Administration assured that use of federal funds for religious purposes will not be allowed.

"It can fund the soup, it can fund the shelter. It shouldn't fund the Bibles, and I think if we maintain that division, we'll be in the right place," stated former Indianapolis Mayor Steve Goldsmith. President Bush has selected Goldsmith to oversee the AmeriCorps volunteer program and to assume a leadership role in assisting faith-based organizations.

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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 08:02 PM
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I dunno, Bear, sounds a lot like:

Dateline: 01/30/01

As he promised during the campaign, President Bush launched his "faith-based" initiative on Monday by establishing a White House office to assist and encourage faith-based organizations is seeking federal funds to combat problems like drug addiction and homelessness.

In a first executive order, Bush created the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. University of Pennsylvania political science professor John Dilulio was named as the head of the new office.

A second related order relieved regulations within the departments of Justice, Housing and Urban Development, Health and Human Services, Labor and Education which, according to the President, made it difficult for private organizations from seeking federal funds.

In a White House announcement, President Bush stated, "It is one of the great goals of my administration to invigorate the spirit of involvement and citizenship. We will encourage faith-based and community programs without changing their mission. We will help all in their work to change hearts while keeping a commitment to pluralism."

Fending off criticism that the new White House office violated separation of church and state as provided for in the "establishment clause" of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution, the Bush Administration assured that use of federal funds for religious purposes will not be allowed.

"It can fund the soup, it can fund the shelter. It shouldn't fund the Bibles, and I think if we maintain that division, we'll be in the right place," stated former Indianapolis Mayor Steve Goldsmith. President Bush has selected Goldsmith to oversee the AmeriCorps volunteer program and to assume a leadership role in assisting faith-based organizations.
The difference is Obama's plan specifies all funds are for SECULAR use only. No funds for religious activity. The Bush plan said that in the Announcement but by the time it became law, it was overburdened with religious spending issues, caveats on who could get money, what they had to do, what message they HAD to project. It was Conservative Social Engineering.

With the Bush Initiative, if it had existed as promised during the campaign, and at the announcement of its creation, there would have been a much different respect for that president. But, like much of the rest of his promises and agenda, once he and his Republican Congress tuned up the bills, a blanket NeoCon agenda emerged.

Take the announcement you posted and then survey the actual programs and see just how many of them were "as advertised". THAT was the problem.

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