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post #51 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 03:35 PM
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Congress is the perfect place for it. The federal government should not be involved in this kind of heavy-handed stupidity. You don't ban light bulbs, local government and utility companies offer incentives for consumers to lean toward more energy-efficient products. The incentives spark a trend, the trend results in higher production of CFLs and lower production of incandescents, thus impacting retail price, which further reinforces the trend. And so on and so on. Consumer-driven markets given nothing more than a gentle nudge.

As far as I'm concerned, Congress should be required to spend as much time deconstructing and eliminating prior legislation as they do burdening taxpayers with more.

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post #52 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 03:52 PM
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Congress is the perfect place for it. The federal government should not be involved in this kind of heavy-handed stupidity. You don't ban light bulbs, local government and utility companies offer incentives for consumers to lean toward more energy-efficient products. The incentives spark a trend, the trend results in higher production of CFLs and lower production of incandescents, thus impacting retail price, which further reinforces the trend. And so on and so on. Consumer-driven markets given nothing more than a gentle nudge.

As far as I'm concerned, Congress should be required to spend as much time deconstructing and eliminating prior legislation as they do burdening taxpayers with more.
I REALLY don't argue with that last sentence.

Re the CFLs, what you describe is exactly what has happened in the market. The legislation simply sunsetted the old technology in five or so years and pushed standards to manufacturers so there would be, as 430 mentioned [bulbs for his chandeliers].

I just keep being reminded of the Consumer driven market that has given us so many incompatible devices in the past few decades that have cost consumer billions of dollars. Sometimes a set of standards brings order to the bizarre.

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post #53 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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We need some rationalization of consumption. I board should be established to determine what people need and then only allow those things to be produced. It would be much easier to enforce compatibility.

Vote for the Democrat Party.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #54 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 04:15 PM
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And really, if moving to new technology lightbulbs is an issue of "freedom" in your life, you must have shit kittens when they took your rotary phone or moved your cell service from analog or now that broadcast TV will not be available without HD. Did required seatbelts make you froth? What about safety glass in windshields?

CFLs are just the next step in technology. It is being "pushed" to establish standards and goals.

And that safety cap on aspirin bottles must just drive you nuts.
I do hate all those safety caps.

I would would hardly draw a comparison between the items you listed and the fucking CFL's and low flow pottys.
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post #55 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 04:16 PM
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Anything that produces heat, whether it is a desktop computer vs laptop, tungsten vs CFL, new frig vs old frig, insulated dryer vs non increases the temperature of the house. Each individual item is in itself minimally significant. The cumulative effect DOES affect your electric bill. Even if you are just talking about lightbulbs.

If you are just talking bulbs it is not a big difference but over years it is a difference.
The difference in the A/C costs due to incandescent vs. CFL will fall well within any margin of error established.
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post #56 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 08:16 PM
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Well I have to admit. I was out tonight and was able to find bulbs the size I need at least base wise.

The problem now is that it looks like absolute ass. Nothing like cheap plastic looking bulbs to complement a big crystal chandelier.
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post #57 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 08:23 PM
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I'm with you. I have plenty of CFLs. I use them everywhere I can indoor and out, without sacrificing aesthetics too much. But I have bathroom fixtures with downward facing bulbs, multiple-bulb ceiling fixtures with dimmers, floods on dimmers, and spots on artwork that will never see CLFs.

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post #58 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 08:25 PM
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I just keep being reminded of the Consumer driven market that has given us so many incompatible devices in the past few decades that have cost consumer billions of dollars. Sometimes a set of standards brings order to the bizarre.
Hmmm . . . perhaps we should just scrap the whole free enterprise thing altogether, then, and let the enlightened federal government come up with just the stuff we need and should be allowed to have. Should the government have weighed in on betamax vs vhs? HDDVD vs Bluray? Those battles wasted a buttload of money as well, but isn't free enterprise, competition, value, etc., supposed to be what we do over here?

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post #59 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 08:55 PM
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Hmmm . . . perhaps we should just scrap the whole free enterprise thing altogether, then, and let the enlightened federal government come up with just the stuff we need and should be allowed to have. Should the government have weighed in on betamax vs vhs? HDDVD vs Bluray? Those battles wasted a buttload of money as well, but isn't free enterprise, competition, value, etc., supposed to be what we do over here?
Don't get me wrong, I am NOT suggesting that the consumer driven system is wrong, I was just pointing out that standardization and industry standards do simplify things.

Interestingly the Betamax/VHS battle was on my mind. Along with the just completed HDDVD/Blueray. Or I could go with the myriad of battery packs that are inherently incompatible or the wall warts that can only be used for limited single design use. The point is very simple. YES what we "do" is free enterprise, competition, value, etc over here. Doesn't mean it is so Fn smart. Standards for devices would save a tremendous amount of money for everyone. Not necessarily government standards, IEEE standards are just fine but standards none the less.

At some point we need to start thinking smarter, not simply thinking. And the notion that "we always did it this way" is just thinking on autopilot.

Back in the early days of the industry that mean ol government had to step in to standardize the width of railroad tracks so interstate commerce could occur. Seems in the "free enterprise, competition, 'how we always do it", roll your own America", nearly every railroad had a different width track.

Wonder how much money, time and energy were wasted.

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post #60 of 65 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
I'm with you. I have plenty of CFLs. I use them everywhere I can indoor and out, without sacrificing aesthetics too much. But I have bathroom fixtures with downward facing bulbs, multiple-bulb ceiling fixtures with dimmers, floods on dimmers, and spots on artwork that will never see CLFs.

Yes,there are of course some applications where CFL's won't work satisfactorily but LED technology is rapidly filling those spots.
With respect to dimmers on CFL's,with a bit of practice you can find the setting which produces a flashing-induced epileptic fit in anyone near-by,which is cheap entertainment.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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