2nd Amendment upheld by the Supreme Court! - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 11:01 AM
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John McCain is one fellow who doesn't trust citizens with the 1st Amendment. He found free speech in a political context to be a terrible inconvenience to professional politicians.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #62 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 05:50 PM
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June 28, 2008
Why can't we protect ourselves?
By Joseph Quesnel


Events in the U.S. and Toronto highlight differences between our two countries on firearms.

As Toronto city council bans shooting clubs within city limits, the U.S. Supreme Court issues a ruling validating private gun ownership as constitutionally protected , overruling a restrictive D.C. law banning handguns. Canadians have an interesting relationship with guns. Canada is home to millions of firearms and our level of gun ownership of 22% is close to France and Sweden, yet we speak about them with terror and pretend guns are something only Americans own.

Our association of America with guns runs deep. Who can forget the segment on telelvision about Sam Steele of the Mounted Police where he informs the American, "men don't wear pistols in Canada"? The gentleman is then escorted to the border, all the while complaining, "why didn't I shoot him?"

Torontonians speak scornfully about guns because the only time they hear about them is when they are used in convenience store muggings. Growing up in rural Northern Ontario, guns were benign, as they were used to hunt our food, protect ourselves and livestock from harmful predators, and helped put down injured deer on the road.

It bothers me when I hear Toronto city councillors tell shooting clubs they don't want them "in their city."

Toronto's ban is irrational as it fails to tackle urban gun crime. Canada should look to the United Kingdom and elsewhere to see that firearm control bears no relation to gun crime prevention. Our own gun registry has done nothing to stop gun crime.

For Mayor David Miller, empirical evidence doesn't matter; only feelings count.

Urban folk believe gun ownership is so unimportant it warrants no protection. Their argument is if you're not a police officer or a soldier, guns aren't necessary, so we should be able to ban or regulate them as we see fit. The issue then is where does this mentality end? What other things do my neighbours have a right to say I have no right to own, despite them not affecting you. This is about urban fear of weapons.

There are arguments raised that criminals steal legal weapons from gun collectors, so we must ban them. This clearly creates injustice. This says that even if I follow all the laws on weapons storage and do everything to keep my weapons from falling into wrong hands, I will be punished for what a third party engaging in illegal activity does?

Canada has a problem with the idea of weapons for self-defence.

The U.S. Supreme Court decision validates this right. Now, before Canadians assume Americans fired M-16s in broad daylight to celebrate, this ruling does not give an absolute right to gun ownership. Bans on military weapons stay in place, as they are not connected to routine self-defence, and state regulations are upheld. Our country may not need a Second Amendment, but it must understand that sometimes Canadians avail themselves of firearms to protect themselves and their families. At a minimum, individuals who use weapons to defend themselves in reasonable situations need legal immunity.

This is what we can learn from this American ruling. Surely we can get over our Americanophobia enough for that.

joseph.quesnel@gmail.com

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #63 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 06:55 PM
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1. I lived in a dictatorship for a while. It was the safest place I ever lived, unless you were the political opposition (I was not. I was a foreigner and in that country on a work visa). If you were political opposition you would likely die if not imprisoned and tortured, if found-out. Constant weeding of disturbing influences makes for a very placid population.

2. True-ish. I would change the word from, "judgmental" to "judgment".

Nothing is more a matter of judgement then when to use violence. For me it is an option for which I take responsibility. For others it may not be.
Yes, therein lies the problem, I'd say there are nine of 'others' to one of 'you'.

Yoshihiro Hattori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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From my perspective, those who are unwilling to use violence in the defense of themselves and others are as useful as cattle. They are safe because people like me keep life safe for them. They are usually relatively safe if they stay bunched-up and don't make too much noise.
What exactly is meant by not making too much noise? Is the American way of living like the way its foreign policy is carried out? Get on thy neighbors' and communities' nerves that one has to live under constant threat of bloody vendetta, like the Hatfields and McCoys, much like the way the nation has to cower from terrorist threats and implement convoluted measures such as the Homeland Security because the US of A can't keep its nose out of other nation's affairs?

People like you keep life safe for them?

that's got to be the most arrogant hyperbole I've heard in years, perhaps decades.


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Being able and willing to use violence makes it highly unlikely that anybody will enter my home or my car or attack my family without first dealing with me.
I do not understand why proponents of the second amendment equate their opponent as passive no violence liberal invertebrate. When my family's safety is at stake, of course I will resort to whatever measures necessary to protect them, gun is just not one of them.

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post #64 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 07:05 PM
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@ Naomilla

"that's got to be the most arrogant hyperbole I've heard in years, perhaps decades".


B B B B B B But haven't you been paying much attention here?


"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca
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post #65 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 07:21 PM
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@ Naomilla

"that's got to be the most arrogant hyperbole I've heard in years, perhaps decades".


B B B B B B But haven't you been paying much attention here?


obviously not, for mine is up there too.

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post #66 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 07:34 PM
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...


People like you keep life safe for them?

that's got to be the most arrogant hyperbole I've heard in years, perhaps decades.....
I don't think it is arrogant at all.

Let's say we lived in a world in which a silly man with a funny mustache wanted to be in charge. Who ya gonna call -- a guy who says, "... The real triumph is that it has shown that representatives of four great Powers can find it possible to agree on a way of carrying out a difficult and delicate operation by discussion instead of by force of arms, and thereby they have averted a catastrophe which would have ended civilisation as we have known it...."

Or a guy who would say the following?

" ... we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, ...".

Which one will pick up the weapon to defend his family, friends, and countrymen?

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #67 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 07:38 PM
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Which is why I think it's significant that it was a split decision, with vociferously dissenting viewpoints. I highly doubt that this is an example of settled case law.
There is no such thing as settled case law.

Re: Roe v Wade

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post #68 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Naomilla2.0 View Post
I do not understand why proponents of the second amendment equate their opponent as passive no violence liberal invertebrate. When my family's safety is at stake, of course I will resort to whatever measures necessary to protect them, gun is just not one of them.
So if you are an unwilling participant in a home invasion, what sort of measures, sans gun would you be using?

I realize it is a highly unlikely scenario, and one I would never hope on anyone but I just can't quite picture too many alternatives.

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post #69 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 07:58 PM
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Again, why equate opponent of the second amendment as passive no violence liberal invertebrate. When my family's safety is at stake, of course I will resort to whatever measures necessary to protect them, gun is just not one of them.

Arrogance lies in the fact that you see yourself as Churchill and equate others with Chamberlain.

If Neville had to accost a home intruder, I'm sure he would have put some sort of fight, no matter how feeble it may be. He was an avid botanist, apparently. He may have gone for the jugular with the garden shear.

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馬鹿は死ななきゃ治らない。

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post #70 of 113 (permalink) Old 06-28-2008, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Naomilla2.0 View Post
Again, why equate opponent of the second amendment as passive no violence liberal invertebrate. When my family's safety is at stake, of course I will resort to whatever measures necessary to protect them, gun is just not one of them.

Arrogance lies in the fact that you see yourself as Churchill and equate others with Chamberlain.

If Neville had to accost a home intruder, I'm sure he would have put some sort of fight, no matter how feeble it may be. He was an avid botanist, apparently. He may have gone for the jugular with the garden shear.
Again, misuse of the word, "arrogance."

I wish I were the man Churchill was and I am very pleased I have never been the man Chamberlain was.

The same drive that allowed me to serve my country in the armed forces is the drive that enables me to protect myself and my family with deadly force. That's not arrogance. That's necessity enabled by willingness.

It is people who have that drive and will who either threaten their lives or keep others safe.

The internal motivation and discipline is what differentiates the cruel murderer or megalomaniac from the dedicated law officer or soldier. Is it arrogance to align ones self clearly on one side in opposition to the other? If you say so.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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