WTH is going on in the MidWest ? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
um, I have been in floods. I don't have it backwards. Depending on where you are in the flow you might get soil dumped on your land but you are more likely, during the heavy rains to have it wash away and dump into the river. It is why they continuously try and dredge the river systems, never quick enough.

I have seen 2000 acres with ALL the topsoil removed by fast moving flood water. The underlying dirt grows nothing.
Here ya go.
========================================
Flooding is a natural part of the life of a river. Before humans intervened, the Mississippi River flooded every year. In fact, floods and the sediments they deliver are largely responsible for the richness of the soil found in floodplains .
Teachers' Domain: Flood: Farming and Erosion
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:27 PM
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Yes it is a pool up here. Dams are breaking and the water has finally crested up here, for now. If we have anymore rain I think the entire state will be under water. We have not had rain here since sat. night and the guy across the streets sump pump is still turning on every 10-15 min. Interstate 94 westbound is closed causing a 125 mile detour to get to Madison. The approved a $900k temporary crossover to be constructed to get it open again. The bridge is getting damaged by high flood waters and they have 3 dump trucks filled with sand parked on it to keep it weighted down. The National Guard was activated Monday and Pretty much all of SE Wisconsin has been declared a disaster area. It will be another 3-4 days without rain for the water to receded to the previously highest flood level recorded here.

"Fat, Drunk and Stupid is no way to go through life."
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mlfun View Post
Here ya go.
========================================
Flooding is a natural part of the life of a river. Before humans intervened, the Mississippi River flooded every year. In fact, floods and the sediments they deliver are largely responsible for the richness of the soil found in floodplains .
Teachers' Domain: Flood: Farming and Erosion
Now go back and read what I wrote "Depending on where you are in the flow you might get soil dumped on your land..." The LEVEE system makes a nice funnel which deposits dirt from upstream which now can roll downstream and deposit itself in the bottom of the river, raising the bottom, shallowing the river and making the next flood worse.

What you post is correct IF there are not levees and IF you are talking about certain parts of the streams. Where do you think those rich sediments come from? Other peoples farms. Luck of the draw. But before man intervened, you are correct. Unfortunately we are no longer at that state of environment.

You might ought to have read the rest of the way down the article before posting it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by From TeachersDomain
Many experts suggest that natural solutions can help to minimize the devastation from floods. They advocate restricting the development of communities in floodplains to keep people and property out of harm's way. They recommend farming practices that help reduce the erosion of topsoil, and in turn the amount of runoff. These include constructing terraces where necessary to reduce the slope of fields, planting non-cash crops between crop rows to better retain moisture and protect topsoil, and plowing circular bands along the contours of fields to slow the flow of water off of them

McBear,
Kentucky

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:39 PM
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I need to mow the lawn again
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by joelschneider View Post
Yes it is a pool up here. Dams are breaking and the water has finally crested up here, for now. If we have anymore rain I think the entire state will be under water. We have not had rain here since sat. night and the guy across the streets sump pump is still turning on every 10-15 min. Interstate 94 westbound is closed causing a 125 mile detour to get to Madison. The approved a $900k temporary crossover to be constructed to get it open again. The bridge is getting damaged by high flood waters and they have 3 dump trucks filled with sand parked on it to keep it weighted down. The National Guard was activated Monday and Pretty much all of SE Wisconsin has been declared a disaster area. It will be another 3-4 days without rain for the water to receded to the previously highest flood level recorded here.
Sorry to hear that. Madison looks like it is going to get isolated Tstorms for the next 5 or so days but that usually doesn't bring much rain. Although any is too much at this point.

Is your house OK or did you get water?

McBear,
Kentucky

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:44 PM
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I need to mow the lawn again
That is the problem with too much rain. I have two yards that equal 1.3 acres right now and it is tiring. Every friggin 7 days.

Did your rain finally slow down too?

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Kentucky

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:44 PM
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dd
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
With each one of these floods [and this is about the 10th 100 year flood that I can remember in the past 30 years] the topsoil washes into the river and fills the bottom and makes the river more shallow and makes the next 100 year flood that much easier.

Oh, and let's not forget that we pave over land like it was a Order from God and lessen the amount of absorbency in the ground. We build McVillage after McVillage creating suburban sprawl that reroutes the natural water flow and causes all manner of unintended consequence. But hey, we got shopping centers and Walmarts and McDonalds and tanning salons within 5 minutes of EVERYONE!!!

And then there are those changing weather patterns.
very true as of old construction but not so since the 90s. but of course nature is altered and that's the way it is. the difference in runoff water from undeveloped land and what it will be after paving has to be detained on site by code. it definitely is done today with about everything. however we do lose ground water refill when everything is either paved or drained off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mlfun View Post
I thought the effect is the opposite. The levees prevent flooding so all the sediment
which would have been spread across the flood plain ends up at the bottom of the
river.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Where do you think the sediment comes from? It would be the topsoil and sand and rocks and roots and all that. The levees are suppose to channel the water away from cities and SOME farm lands but don't extend throughout the entire tributary system of big water systems.

And apparently they don't hold the water back so well either. Wonder if the same Corps of Engineers kiddies who dealt with the Levee system in NOLA also built, managed and inspected the upstream system? I am not seeing much quality in their work.
not all and in fact most levees weren't constructed by USACE nor similar state agencies. most levees were constructed by farmers or nearby inhabitants. only now are these agencies either fixing or updating some of these "levees."
NOLA is such a waste, the levees there are a perpetual money sinking wall. it will never be done nor will it really ever keep anyone safe and dry. just my dime on that.



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Not to mention the kegger which he appears to have almost fully consumed. Something tells me this is not a desperate act of emergency but simply status quo in this fellers' daily routine.
I think he's que'ing locusts.
lol. didn't notice the kegger first time around. oh man.. this guy seems v. natural and comfy.. yeah, it's just a routine. i wander if clk does his catfish in this fashion

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlfun View Post
You got it backwards.
Rain washes over the top soil carrying some into the river.
Flooding has the opposite effect of dumping soil on the plains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
um, I have been in floods. I don't have it backwards. Depending on where you are in the flow you might get soil dumped on your land but you are more likely, during the heavy rains to have it wash away and dump into the river. It is why they continuously try and dredge the river systems, never quick enough.

I have seen 2000 acres with ALL the topsoil removed by fast moving flood water. The underlying dirt grows nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlfun View Post
Here ya go.
========================================
Flooding is a natural part of the life of a river. Before humans intervened, the Mississippi River flooded every year. In fact, floods and the sediments they deliver are largely responsible for the richness of the soil found in floodplains .
Teachers' Domain: Flood: Farming and Erosion
i wanted to chime in after the first post but looks like milf hereis on it although you both are right. it kind of works both ways. washes and then floods redeposit. that's how it works. mcbear, the thing is that your soil was stripped by the floods but it can't get replenished because of the levees. all your land ever experiences is the super floods. without the wall your land would get smaller floods all the time and thus the soil particles would be better able to be deposited.
btw. are you sure your soil is stripped or is it actually so covered with sediments that nothing will grow for now?

someone said something about the mississippi and all these deposits: well, with the levee system all the stuff actually doesn't necessarily all end up on the bottom of the river but definitely in places that would be true. the further south, the worse which bring us all back to NOLA and the problems only compound. besides look into some sat pictures of the mouth of the mighty river and what it is doing to the gulf.

oh and between here and LOU it's a mess. i live up high so no issues here. the basement took on a bit but it was all gone a day later.



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Last edited by mzsmbs; 06-18-2008 at 09:47 PM.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:45 PM
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The last real big Mississippi flood was 1993. I have pictures of water at unthinkable places covering unthinkable pieces of road and buildings on Laclede's Landing in St. Louis then. Bought a shirt that said "I Survived The Flood of 1993".

Around here, we have over twice the rainfall to-date that we did last year, which was above average. 33" plus. The storm systems have been very large, and regularly severe (but the tornados haven't been as prevalent).

Almost makes you wonder....whether or not there are in fact feedback loops on old planet Earth that actively keep rising temps in check. I'm not sure that this type of flooding is something that is natural in origin - the urban development is a really big part of it.

The flooding seems to move region to region though. San Antonio was drenched one year (2000?), and is now bone dry. Same with California - remember mudslides?
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzsmbs View Post
i wanted to chime in after the first post but looks like milf hereis on it although you both are right. it kind of works both ways. washes and then floods redeposit. that's how it works. mcbear, the thing is that your soil was stripped by the floods but it can't get replenished because of the levees. all your land ever experiences is the super floods. without the wall your land would get smaller floods all the time and thus the soil particles would be better able to be deposited.


btw. are you sure your soil is stripped or is it actually so covered with sediments that nothing will grow for now?
I think we covered the in and out of sediments somewhere above while you were constructing this complex reply [possibly the most extensive I have seen here]. Should be just above your post

As for the stripped land, it is my uncles and yeppers, it was stripped thanks to the Mighty Wabash as we noted a knoll that no longer existed in the field and the field was much lower than the paved roads to either side. It pretty much was a designed channel for all intents and purposes.

McBear,
Kentucky

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 09:56 PM
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