Look out Long Oil positions!! - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
pcunningham42's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2006
Vehicle: 1997 S420 Midnight Blue 113,000
Location: New York
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Garage
(Thread Starter)
Look out Long Oil positions!!

Bush to Congress:

1) Expand drilling in OCS
2) Tap into Oil Shale
3) Drill in ANWR
4) Expand Refining capacity

Be responsible
pcunningham42 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 10:42 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)




Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 11:45 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Where are

5. Invest in Alternative Energy Sources when the 1-4 runs out in 10-20 years
6. Expand R&D in Conservation of Energy to increase lifespan of oil dependence
7. Explore Alternative Business practice and Lifestyles to reduce Energy
8. Design Future Communities around Energy requirements
9. Invest in Energy friendly infrastructure

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 12:51 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcunningham42 View Post
Bush to Congress:

1) Expand drilling in OCS
2) Tap into Oil Shale
3) Drill in ANWR
4) Expand Refining capacity

Pipe dreams, demogogery and puffery. Oil shale? "Tap in"? What a joke. You'd have to rip up half of Colorado, the stuff has to be crushed out of rocks. Expanded drilling on the OCS? Sure, then everyone can live in a shithole like Galveston, Texas, where you have to scrub the crude oil off the soles of your feet as you look at water that you would be fucking crazy to swim in. And AnWR, the pipe dream of the right, there simply isn't that much oil there, we'd use it up in no time. And what does Congress have to do with expanding refinery capacity? It is the refiners themselves who don't want to. Refineries aren't the problem any way, they can cause occasional blimps in supply, but the real problem is pretty straight forward:

There simply is not enough oil to go around, and the potential reserves just aren't there in the US. We have enjoyed being the world's largest consumer of oil for a long time, and those days are simply over. As supply decreases, or even if it increases by a small amount, it will simply not be on the same curve as the demand side. We can drill like crazy in the US, and we still will not get anywhere near the 20 million barrels of oil a day we consume, and even if we did, the price would still have to match the world oil price, which will not change because whatever we don't buy on the world market will simply be bought up by the emerging economies.

If we had real leadership instead of two oil men in charge of the country, they would tell us the sad truth: the Oil Age is over. The oil guys knew this 10 years ago. Bush and Cheney knew it 10 years ago.

The oil companies have been quietly buying up all the US coal reserves because they know the future is coal gasification and liquified coal. Why crush up half of Colorado when we have supplies of energy already exposed in coal pits around the country that could produce diesel fuel for the same price?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 01:16 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Jul 2007
Vehicle: 1973 450 SL
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 5,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
Pipe dreams, demogogery and puffery. Oil shale? "Tap in"? What a joke. You'd have to rip up half of Colorado, the stuff has to be crushed out of rocks. Expanded drilling on the OCS? Sure, then everyone can live in a shithole like Galveston, Texas, where you have to scrub the crude oil off the soles of your feet as you look at water that you would be fucking crazy to swim in. And AnWR, the pipe dream of the right, there simply isn't that much oil there, we'd use it up in no time. And what does Congress have to do with expanding refinery capacity? It is the refiners themselves who don't want to. Refineries aren't the problem any way, they can cause occasional blimps in supply, but the real problem is pretty straight forward:

There simply is not enough oil to go around, and the potential reserves just aren't there in the US. We have enjoyed being the world's largest consumer of oil for a long time, and those days are simply over. As supply decreases, or even if it increases by a small amount, it will simply not be on the same curve as the demand side. We can drill like crazy in the US, and we still will not get anywhere near the 20 million barrels of oil a day we consume, and even if we did, the price would still have to match the world oil price, which will not change because whatever we don't buy on the world market will simply be bought up by the emerging economies.

If we had real leadership instead of two oil men in charge of the country, they would tell us the sad truth: the Oil Age is over. The oil guys knew this 10 years ago. Bush and Cheney knew it 10 years ago.

The oil companies have been quietly buying up all the US coal reserves because they know the future is coal gasification and liquified coal. Why crush up half of Colorado when we have supplies of energy already exposed in coal pits around the country that could produce diesel fuel for the same price?
I agree that we need to develop alternative energy sources as rapidly as possible. However, to coin a phrase, in the interim few decades, we can't conserve our way out of this problem.

Obama says we must leave behind the failed policies of the past. One of those was Cuomo's shut down of a nuclear plant. The other was Clinton's veto of Congressional approval of drilling in ANWR.

I've listened to the discussion here in Colorado about oil shale. FTL, you are repeating fears based on old technology. Currently, oil shale miners are describing a new method which liquifies the shale underground before extraction. The details and status are unclear to me, but if true the large open-pit is a thing of the past.

Charter member of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy and proud of it.

God Bless the America we're trying to create.
--Hillary Rodham Clinton
bottomline1 is offline  
post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 01:51 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
I agree that we need to develop alternative energy sources as rapidly as possible. However, to coin a phrase, in the interim few decades, we can't conserve our way out of this problem.

Obama says we must leave behind the failed policies of the past. One of those was Cuomo's shut down of a nuclear plant. The other was Clinton's veto of Congressional approval of drilling in ANWR.

I've listened to the discussion here in Colorado about oil shale. FTL, you are repeating fears based on old technology. Currently, oil shale miners are describing a new method which liquifies the shale underground before extraction. The details and status are unclear to me, but if true the large open-pit is a thing of the past.
Link???

Currently Shale is the lowest BTU value of all the Coal products [compressed sedimentary rocks] and requires a boat load of process to gather oil.

I am guessing the process of which you refer is the "in situ" process where the shale is cooked in the ground prior to extraction. Shell Oil is working on that. Is this the process you are referring to?

FuturePundit: Shell Oil Shale Extraction Technology Economically Viable?

and here is a flyover Wiki of the basics on extraction.

Oil shale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 02:06 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
I agree that we need to develop alternative energy sources as rapidly as possible. However, to coin a phrase, in the interim few decades, we can't conserve our way out of this problem.
I think the fear is that since we are hearing the same plan repeated again and again we will get the same results that we have received every time we [as a government] have provided carrot incentive to Oil Companies and the Automotive industry to develop new technologies while conserving our way out of the problem.

The air pump/catalytic converter was suppose to be a very short term solution to emission control back in the 1970s when it first came out. That interim phase, while new technology was being developed to improve air quality and cleaner burning engines resulted, just 20 years later in yet another "that thing got a Hemi" horsepower war. Engines are more efficient and cleaner but they are the same technology and use the same fuel. That interim solution became part of the design, not a stop gap.

Tax credits for Oil Companies and Auto Industry in 1974 were intended to act as a rebuttal to OPEC and to lessen our dependence on Middle East Oil. That all stopped January 1981 when Reagan gutted Nixon, Ford and Carter energy bills. The Tax Credits remained but the requirements stopped. CAFE standards were put off, alternative fuel systems were removed from the drawing boards.

Power plants tied themselves up with both accidents and regulation issues that set industry back decades. Flaws in design, budget cuts from Federal funds and mandates that often contradicted itself left power companies starting and stopping plants in mid stream. The costs for completion just got too high as oil/coal was no longer a cost issue and since the specter of the energy boogieman was out of sight, it became out of mind.

So the fear that we are marching down that same path, without a solid plan for future Alternative Energy Systems both for our power grid needs and our transportation needs has left many seeing today's Bush remarks as SSDD. His planning just can't be trusted.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 02:10 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Link???

Currently Shale is the lowest BTU value of all the Coal products [compressed sedimentary rocks] and requires a boat load of process to gather oil.

I am guessing the process of which you refer is the "in situ" process where the shale is cooked in the ground prior to extraction. Shell Oil is working on that. Is this the process you are referring to?

FuturePundit: Shell Oil Shale Extraction Technology Economically Viable?

and here is a flyover Wiki of the basics on extraction.

Oil shale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No, the big news is Ratheon and Schlumberger's partnership to, in a nutshell, microwave the stuff out of the ground. It is theoretical at this point, and is in the testing phase. Schlumberger's throwing a ton of money at it - a well is sunk, a high-frequency transmitter is injected into the well, and it emits microwaves that heat the shale oil, and once heated, it will migrate into pools. One good side benefit of it, if it works, is that it requires injection of CO2 gas to get the well flowing, making a market for injecting greenhouse gases into the ground where they do less damage to the environment.



The negative side is these would be fairly low-yield wells, they would help the situation, but again as I have stated, the problem is we use 25% to 30% of the world's daily oil output, while at the same time the demand for oil from the emerging economies rise by 5%-10% per year while production remains steady. The oil producers in the US are certainly not going to sell their oil for less than world market prices, so unless we have some way of pulling 10 million barrels of oil a day out of our ass, we are going to be behind the curve. The truth is the easiest way for us to get a 10 million barrel a day advantage is to quit using those 10 million barrels. We badly, badly need another source of motor fuel. We need cars that use less gas, it is a shame Bush did not institute a gas guzzler tax, as simple measure of national security - we are paying the price for it now. If we are looking for abundant, Saudi Arabia style energy reserves in the US, it's coal and nuclear.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 06-18-2008 at 02:17 PM.
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Member
 
pcunningham42's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2006
Vehicle: 1997 S420 Midnight Blue 113,000
Location: New York
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Garage
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Where are

5. Invest in Alternative Energy Sources when the 1-4 runs out in 10-20 years
6. Expand R&D in Conservation of Energy to increase lifespan of oil dependence
7. Explore Alternative Business practice and Lifestyles to reduce Energy
8. Design Future Communities around Energy requirements
9. Invest in Energy friendly infrastructure
Congress's inability to come up with any sort of energy policy, other than the one linked below, has forced the President to take action. Your points do nothing to lower the price at the pump, which is what hard working, God fearing, America lovers care about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e-LOtKIIKcg>
pcunningham42 is offline  
post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-18-2008, 02:54 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
I was just going to point out your comment on transportation fuel vs power company fuel. This just came over the net a few minutes ago that McCain is suggesting 45 Nuclear Power plants by 2030 to stop our dependence on foreign oil. WELLLLLLLL. It might make the air clearer and produce less CO2 but it is not going to reduce that much dependence [about 10%]. And the cost of those 45 Nuke plants would be about $400+Billion just to build, not taking into account upkeep, maintenance, or that annoying storage of waste and then the VERY EXPENSIVE shutdown costs.

McCain calls for building 45 new nuclear reactors

Pushing CAFE standards up to just 26 mpg [using standard gasoline] would gain a higher yield from dependence from foreign oil with NONE of the investment or risk. But of course the Energy companies would not gain any profits from that policy.

By the way, thanks for the information on the Microwave Shale. That is very interesting if it can work. With low yield, I can't imagine much direct corporate interest without federal monies to back it.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Positions for the lonely.......... Jakarta Expat Off-Topic 9 01-03-2008 12:27 PM
    119 engine mount positions lander91 W126 S,SE,SEC,SEL,SD,SDL Class 12 02-08-2006 04:13 AM
    Fuse positions E300D kggkgg W124 E,CE,D,TD Class 1 04-09-2004 07:22 PM
    Did you know there are two different positions for the spare wheel Ufuk Hattat G-Class 2 12-21-2001 07:55 AM
    Does 100% synthetic oil look the same as dino oil after, say, 5000 miles? (long) SWH, Suffolk, VA R170 SLK-Class 2 04-08-2001 06:05 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome