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post #11 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 02:25 PM
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Let's see. The Bush admin lets energy languish, McCain comes along and proposes changing that with a signal to the speculators that their game is coming to an end soon and you are blustering about partisanship. You are practicing what you complain about.

So you like Obama's plan to tax the oil companies "windfall profit?" That's really going to help a lot. You could just need a refresher on what happened the last time that was tried.
Actually, if you have read what I have written [and I know you did as you commented on it] you know that I DON'T like the Windfall Profits Tax. My comments were to simply take away the tax credits that the energy companies have been getting that were suppose to be going to alternative energy research, but have not. Please pay attention if you plan on commenting on my thoughts.

As for offshore drilling, it is only a stopgap measure at best. We have to move to alternative energy sources if we intend to deal with both future energy needs and our current ones.

As an example, ANWR. Even if we open the taps wide open on ANWR we will only reduce foreign dependence by 4% [66%/70% according to Energy Information Administration, the GOVERNMENTS Analyst arm of DOE].

An other example, Offshore drilling suggests that if all 86Billion barrels of oil that is projected to be available [though not all accessable] should ALL Offshore drilling be allowed [using the latest Congressional attempt of last week- Peterson amendment], that would be about 11 total years of oil at the current burn rate [20M barrels a day]. After that, IT is all gone.

So the point is, once you get to the math of the problem, we need to find something that 1)lasts longer than 11 years and 2) does not threaten food and water supplies and 3) looks forward to future generations instead of yet another short term, stop gap political solution.

GOP resurrects offshore oil drilling plan - St. Petersburg Times

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post #12 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 02:57 PM
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Some studies show it will take six to ten years to build up to pumping capacity in Northern Alaska for a supply that will last two years based on Today's consumption. Do you think that's worth it? I think we need to go all the way into alternative energies by spending our money on research rather than drilling holes that will go dry after the first sip. Forget fossil fuels unless we make engines and generators that operate at 85% efficiency. I believe in electric power generated by nuclear, solar and hydrogen (if we figure out how to get the H without fossil fuel).
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post #13 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 03:11 PM
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Some studies show it will take six to ten years to build up to pumping capacity in Northern Alaska for a supply that will last two years based on Today's consumption. Do you think that's worth it? I think we need to go all the way into alternative energies by spending our money on research rather than drilling holes that will go dry after the first sip. Forget fossil fuels unless we make engines and generators that operate at 85% efficiency. I believe in electric power generated by nuclear, solar and hydrogen (if we figure out how to get the H without fossil fuel).
Well, we have a 100-200 year supply of coal left depending on its future use. With technologies to burn it cleanly for electric power and convert it for oil, it has three pretty good benefits as a generational short term benefit. 1) it is HERE, 2) it is spread out over the country so there is minimal NIMBY issues and 3) it puts entire regions of Americans back to work for at least 1.5 generations.

To deal with pollution issues it has to be done right but the technology either exists or is "on the cusp" according to all the research. It is more environmentally sound than drilling offshore, has a much smaller footprint, less likelihood of negative impact on the environment and is pretty much All American. In the long term, however Nuclear and other alternative power sources are going to have to be the primary sources of power in this country [and the world]. Oil has peaked and even coal only has a limited window. We need to start in about 1973 on this problem when we first figured it out that there was a problem.

There will be folks that don't like strip mining [I would be one of those] but with reclamation and proper up front planning that problem is solvable. Mine Safety will also be an issue but very strict regulation will insure that the only thing that causes issues will be nature, not negligence or inattention [I have been 1.5 miles down a deep mine. They turned out the lights in the 34 inch seam of coal -thats also the roof heigth - it is very humbling to say the least.] People do not need to die that way [my grandfather did].

Offshore Drilling and ANWR are stopgap measures at best and more likely than not just political football. Afterall, before OBL, the GOP had the Sierra Club and Greenpeace as the top bad guys. Since they have failed at OBL, I guess Sierra Club is back on top.

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post #14 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 03:13 PM
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jay, why don't you go drill your own ass man. you make freaking about 0 sense still. egh.



in political asylum
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post #15 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 03:22 PM
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There are are over one billion barrels of oil in ANWR alone that would cost approximately $35/barrel to extract. At current oil prices, that leaves nearly $100/barrel in profit. This would provide $80 billion dollars to fund renewable energy research and $20 billion dollars to fund any potential cleanup. that is using the most conservative estimates and only considers ANWR.

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post #16 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 03:29 PM
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There are are over one billion barrels of oil in ANWR alone that would cost approximately $35/barrel to extract. At current oil prices, that leaves nearly $100/barrel in profit. This would provide $80 billion dollars to fund renewable energy research and $20 billion dollars to fund any potential cleanup. that is using the most conservative estimates and only considers ANWR.
Who are you kidding? Do you think those revenues will fund alternative energies or clean up? That's usually left for the taxpayers as a "burden" while said profits go to oil companies.
Where did you see a stipulation to that effect either by the President or Congress? Who's going to drill for the oil if that was true? Oh yeah, let me guess the government, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
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post #17 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Yet, somehow, during SIX YEARS where both the White House and BOTH houses of Congress were held by WeePublican Majority there was not a stampede to right that egregious wrong. And we know Bushie somehow lost his VETO PEN during those six years as he allow Congress to burn through $4+Trillion of Deficit Appropriations that he NOW suggests he might stop to keep the Debt down.

So, apparently the WeePublican Congress and our Great and Gloryholeous leader either 1) FORGOT or 2) were protecting their buddies in the industry by keeping prices HIGH or 3) were actually more interested in using offshore drilling and ANWR as political football instead of as an element of an Energy Policy.

Does anyone have any other rational possibilities?



bueller?
President Bush ran on and was elected twice on a platform to put platforms in the Gulf and drill Anwar, and all the Republicans in Congress voted to do it, but the democraps threatened a filibuster requiring a 2/3's majority to get it passed. So guess what? $4.00+ gas and no hope for ever breaking free of OPEC, etc...

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post #18 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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We need a one trillion dollar investment in nuclear power and a two trillion dollar investment in liquified coal. Instead we pour good corn liquor down the gas pipe.
I'll vote for that!

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post #19 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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...................Offshore Drilling and ANWR are stopgap measures at best and more likely than not just political football. Afterall, before OBL, the GOP had the Sierra Club and Greenpeace as the top bad guys. Since they have failed at OBL, I guess Sierra Club is back on top.
They may be stopgap, but they are the only real hope for us ever achieving energy-independence in our lifetime.

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post #20 of 185 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 04:24 PM
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They may be stopgap, but they are the only real hope for us ever achieving energy-independence in our lifetime.
...and insure that our kids go back to the Stone Age
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