When were we allowed to strike inside a sovreign nation? - Page 11 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #101 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 07:50 PM
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Uh, we are a little left here fellas.
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post #102 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 07:59 PM
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Pakistan borders Afghanistan. Prior to the 9/11 attacks, Pakistan was allied with the Taliban government and acted as an itermediary for that goverment when communicating with the "outside world". Then 9/11 happened. 9/11 was assited, greatly, by the Taliban government. NATO invaded Afghanistan in the name of destroying the terrorists who launched the attacks - and I think most people on this forum agree that there is a direct connection between Afghanistan, Al Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks. Suddenly Pakistan "switches sides" and becomes an ally to the West in the GWOT. But they don't do a really good job ensuring the integrity of their borders. Maybe that's because the terrain is difficult and maybe that's also because there is still a lot of support for the Taliban in Pakistan, especially in the border regions that have the closest ties with Afghanistan. But Pakistan is where Taliban/Al Qaeda fighters go to hide when NATO comes looking for them. NATO has been warning Pakistan about this for years and Musharraf has been politely telling us to go fuck ourselves. So the US drops some bombs in Pakistan and Pakistani soldiers are dead.

Is this good? No, not at all. Is it right? No, not at all. But if Pakistan took steps to keep the integrity of their border it wouldn't have happened. There is only so many times that NATO is going to be willing to let their enemy flee to the safety of Pakistan, only to sneak back and plan ambushes and plant IEDs. For the sake of appearances, it might have been better if it was UK jets that did the bombing, but they probably weren't on CAP in that area. Rightly or wrongly, that was as much about a message being sent to Pakistan as it was about killing Al Qaeda/Taliban fighters.
Talibani AQ also wanders into Uzbekistan, Turkimenistan, Tajikistan and the Kashmirs. Iraqi AQ wander between Syria and Iraq, through Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and even into Turkey.

Oh, also Rochester, NY and Detroit, MI.

The problem is we bombed a sovereign nation with which we are not at war. Period. We just don't have that right as a country.

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post #103 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 08:07 PM
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Uh, we are a little left here fellas.
I was trying to list that out the other day. I think we have a pretty good balance from both sides.

I can't help it if the Shrinking28 is well...Shrinking.

Maybe it's the water temperature.

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post #104 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 10:51 PM
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Uh, we are a little left here fellas.
I'm a lot left, but you knew that already
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post #105 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-13-2008, 05:15 AM
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I'm a lot left, but you knew that already
Right.

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post #106 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-13-2008, 07:55 AM
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Just to be clear, you sent a BW thread to Mr Gray and he called us a "left wing blog"?

Is that what I am reading?

If so, I now christen Pat Gray my official new cat toy.
I didn't send it, someone on this site did. When I read his morning screed the words of the left wing blog he claimed attacked him sounded suspiciously like my own, so I checked the thread and it was word-for-word.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #107 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-13-2008, 08:00 AM
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Uh, we are a little left here fellas.
Come on Shane, some of the posters may be but this is not a web site established by leftists so that left-wing opinion can be highlighted. The management of the site is politically neutral, they did not establish a "left wing blog", they established an open forum so they could show that Mercedes Benz owners are predominately, well, let's just say "excitable". And it waxes and wanes, when I first arrived here it was a predominately right wing forum, now it is a shouting match between the two sides. To characterize us as a "left wing blog" is dishonest and self-serving of Mr. Gray, who wishes Right Wing Nut Job Martyrdom at the hands of us crazed liberals.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #108 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-13-2008, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Talibani AQ also wanders into Uzbekistan, Turkimenistan, Tajikistan and the Kashmirs. Iraqi AQ wander between Syria and Iraq, through Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and even into Turkey.

Oh, also Rochester, NY and Detroit, MI.

The problem is we bombed a sovereign nation with which we are not at war. Period. We just don't have that right as a country.
EXACTLY
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post #109 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-13-2008, 08:18 AM
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Talibani AQ also wanders into Uzbekistan, Turkimenistan, Tajikistan and the Kashmirs. Iraqi AQ wander between Syria and Iraq, through Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and even into Turkey.

Oh, also Rochester, NY and Detroit, MI.

The problem is we bombed a sovereign nation with which we are not at war. Period. We just don't have that right as a country.
Like I said, I didn't think it was right. But that doesn't mean it isn't explainable, either. The only truth in foreign relations is that might makes right. History is written by the victors, so the winners get to decide who was good and who was evil. It also wouldn't be the first time that the US has bombed a country that it wasn't at war with. It also wouldn't be the first time that a powerful nation did something just because it could.

It is what it is, and it ain't gonna change.
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post #110 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-13-2008, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
Come on Shane, some of the posters may be but this is not a web site established by leftists so that left-wing opinion can be highlighted. The management of the site is politically neutral, they did not establish a "left wing blog", they established an open forum so they could show that Mercedes Benz owners are predominately, well, let's just say "excitable". And it waxes and wanes, when I first arrived here it was a predominately right wing forum, now it is a shouting match between the two sides. To characterize us as a "left wing blog" is dishonest and self-serving of Mr. Gray, who wishes Right Wing Nut Job Martyrdom at the hands of us crazed liberals.
I checked out his blog and what a hoot, the dude is so friggin paranoid and all he's got left is lash out at BWOT. Here we have some of the finest samples of right wing nuts, all you have to do is read Bottomeline's personal attacks, Multipurpose's blatant racism, DestroyerW140 working as a mole, Jahhawk insanity over distorted facts and so many others that make one of the flavors of BWOT and keep us coming for more. BWOT is a dramatic yet addictive soap opera of political and insane comments through some of the wackiest persona cyber space can churn out.
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