Obama, you lost my vote - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by drewprof View Post
I am not opposed to normal relationships with Israel. For you it's easy to automatically use the anti-Semitic/anti-Israeli card because you have no balls. I call it like it is and if you think that I am anti this or that then a big fuk you because MY America comes first. I will never put the interests of a foreign country ahead of mine and that is no hate bro.
Israel has a right to exist just like everyone else involved in this shit. You always seem to forget that there are other stakeholders here because in your mind any criticism of Israel because of its policies and treatment of others is taboo. Let's set the record straight here Bot: Do you put the interests of Israel ahead of the United States? Please answer this question as directly as possible and avoid your usual Bot style evasions if you intend to accuse me of anti anything in the future.
We pander to the Israelis because they are our ME bulldog. If the shit really hits the fan, the US will turn the IDF loose and they will run through their neighbors like shit through a goose. They have few strategic, but MANY tactical nukes. More importantly, they have the balls to use them in a conflict that the US could not justifiably do the same. The American people do not know this, but the government has had this sword in our collective back pockets for some time. All of the ME countries that oppose the west and Israel also know this. It's one of the biggest reasons Syria and Iran in particular have not already thumbed their noses at us by announcing their nuclear ambitions. We would run screaming to the rest on the world and the UN demanding action, sanctions, et. al., while Israel would do what? Remember the "secret" underground facilities in Syria that are no more? They play the game as we do, occasionally rattling their sabres, but no one overtly challenging Israel. BO could not possibly be any different than any other politician. Anyone who did or has still bought in to his "change" bullshit is about to get exactly what they deserve, a lesson in US politics.
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post #52 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 07:51 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fast55 View Post
We pander to the Israelis because they are our ME bulldog. If the shit really hits the fan, the US will turn the IDF loose and they will run through their neighbors like shit through a goose. They have few strategic, but MANY tactical nukes. More importantly, they have the balls to use them in a conflict that the US could not justifiably do the same. The American people do not know this, but the government has had this sword in our collective back pockets for some time. All of the ME countries that oppose the west and Israel also know this. It's one of the biggest reasons Syria and Iran in particular have not already thumbed their noses at us by announcing their nuclear ambitions. We would run screaming to the rest on the world and the UN demanding action, sanctions, et. al., while Israel would do what? Remember the "secret" underground facilities in Syria that are no more? They play the game as we do, occasionally rattling their sabres, but no one overtly challenging Israel. BO could not possibly be any different than any other politician. Anyone who did or has still bought in to his "change" bullshit is about to get exactly what they deserve, a lesson in US politics.
Our ME bulldogs you say: Why aren't they in Iraq? Why didn't they invade Iraq themselves since that's what Israel wanted all along? Why aren't they at least helping us since we did the bidding for them? Why aren't they roaming the streets of Baghdad so our kids don't end up on their way back to Delaware in boxes? Well at least why aren't they paying us back for the protection?
Your excuse about this "special" relationship with Israel doesn't compile properly, I keep getting errors as other parameters are factored in. Let me ask you a simple question: Is it us against them kind of deal? I mean we have Israel in there to keep them ragheads in check, right? Yet we also send billions to Egypt and Jordan, so why are we paying these guys since Israel in YOUR OWN WORDS can do it all?
My whole contention is why are we putting Israel's interest ahead of ours? Can you at least answer that? Personally I would like to see Israel thrive but in peace and harmony with its neighbors while allowing for equal rights to Palestinians; do you see anything wrong with my view or is that too peaceful for your taste but blood, mayhem and genocide is more inline with your beliefs?
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post #53 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 08:33 AM
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They have no interest in Iraq, Iraq isn't threatening them. Why would they fight a drawn out battle with the Iraqis when we're doing it for them? They won't do damned thing we want unless it's in their interests as well, so I understand the frustration. I've already answered your question. I make no "excuses" for Israel. They're just as fucked up as the rest. It isn't that we put their "interests" ahead of ours, it's that our interests are somewhat aligned, and we don't have any other friends there. The Saudis??? They'd stick a knife in our backs in a heartbeat if we didn't float half of their economy through oil revenues. As we become a smaller player in the world oil market and the Asian markets continue to expand, we can expect an even less amicable relationship with them. Israel has a relationship with Jordan and Egypt, strained maybe, but neither country is calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map". That's the reason we pretend to be friends with these ME countries (including the Saudis). As long as they pretend to be somewhat "friendly" to the west, we play the game. We pay Israel a shitload of money and give them billions in military hardware to stand in there and keep the unfriendly ones on their toes. It really isn't that hard to understand. Where in hell do I say I "believe" in "blood, mayhem and genocide"? YOUR WORDS. Being pissed off about the situation tends to make you say ridiculous things like that. I too, would love to see these people figure out a way to "just get along", but in the mean time, we have the status quo, and BO isn't about to "change" any of this.
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post #54 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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So do you agree that we pander to them?
To accept that as business as usual makes us wanting blood on our hand, do you understand that?
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post #55 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 10:26 AM
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I actually wrote that we do, in fact, pander to them. I don't believe anyone disputes that, but I don't think that makes us wanting blood on our hands. I'd love to see BO get a little tougher on the Israelis, at least from the point of view of the rest of the world. It would do a lot for our image if we could at least appear to be a little more neutral. We will not ever tell them to go fuck themselves. Doesn't make sense to alienate the only friend you have in the room, so again, BO will likely change nothing.
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post #56 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fast55 View Post
I actually wrote that we do, in fact, pander to them. I don't believe anyone disputes that, but I don't think that makes us wanting blood on our hands. I'd love to see BO get a little tougher on the Israelis, at least from the point of view of the rest of the world. It would do a lot for our image if we could at least appear to be a little more neutral. We will not ever tell them to go fuck themselves. Doesn't make sense to alienate the only friend you have in the room, so again, BO will likely change nothing.
You're starting to make sense Welcome to the Dark Side and don't let Bot intimidate you with anti this and anti that because you see what our relationship with Israel is all about. Well at least you're not blind
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post #57 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 12:16 PM
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How much cash are we paying every citizen of England to be our "friend"?
Valid point. I'd prefer not to give money to any foreign power that didn't supports our policies.

IIRC, President Carter is the guy who set-up the payola scheme to Israel, Egypt & Jordan. Those three have not attacked each other since. Is that money well-spent or money wasted?

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #58 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 12:18 PM
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Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, the average American poll responder is blissfully unaware of the detrimental influence lobbyists, Zionist or otherwise, have on the errors in judgment called US foreign policy.
By golly, we need to undermine the will of the majority since they are so stupid they don't even recognize such a grave threat. I agree with you, democracies are a PITA. We should adopt the typical Middle East form of government. Fuck a buncha nitwit voters.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #59 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 12:21 PM
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I actually wrote that we do, in fact, pander to them. I don't believe anyone disputes that, but I don't think that makes us wanting blood on our hands. I'd love to see BO get a little tougher on the Israelis, at least from the point of view of the rest of the world. It would do a lot for our image if we could at least appear to be a little more neutral. We will not ever tell them to go fuck themselves. Doesn't make sense to alienate the only friend you have in the room, so again, BO will likely change nothing.
Want a good image, buy Maybelline.

The only folks on the planet who give a shit about image are the ones who offer us no threat. The ones who offer a threat don't give a shit if we like holding hands and long walks on the beach.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #60 of 84 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 12:34 PM
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....we need to undermine the will of the majority since they are so stupid they don't even recognize such a grave threat.

No, not stupidity, political apathy. And I do consider the current atmosphere of influence peddling and lobbyist engendered corruption to be a grave threat.


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We should adopt the typical Middle East form of government.
Your thoughts, not mine.


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Fuck a buncha nitwit voters.
Again, apathetic, unobservant and unaware. All correctable for those who care regarding the condition of the Republic.
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