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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jakarta Expat View Post
OK Bot, I'll bite, why would the biased FOX go after Repubs? Do you believe they have switched sides or could they be double agents?
A recent study on reporting of presidential candidates' events found that Fox was the most even-handed. It amused me.

TV reporting is a Rorschach of politics: Rorschach inkblot test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 03:19 PM
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Not buying it. Your first example (the 'positive' earmark) is a regional, rather than a federal responsibility. Tell me why my tax dollars are funding such a project and how I expect to benefit from same. It is a corrupt system, and eliminating corruption from that system is as likely as eliminating the cancer from Sen Kennedy's brain. If it cannot be done (and it cannot) the system must die.
Yes.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 03:23 PM
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There's that libertarian I know . . . it has been so long that we cannot comprehend anything other than the federal government taking care of us (we rhetorically meaning the citizens of this country). Imagine if those dollars didn't go to Washington to be routed back. Then, Ky could buy it's own cancer machine and Phoenix could fix its own water issue.
Live within our own means, not somebody else's.

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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 03:40 PM
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So the choices are no oversight on a federal level vs. responsible oversight on a state level. What do you think regional government is for? Why do we have alderman, town councilmen, state representatives, mayors, governors, etc.? If federal monies must be used for local projects, then share and share alike, and let regional governments do their jobs and oversee proper distribution and application of said monies. I'm sorry, but you are essentially arguing to enable, even encourage corruption in our federal government, and I know you're not alone. In the end, that is exactly why our government is as corrupt as it is.
No, those are NOT the two choices.

If you look at how earmarks are distributed, I believe you will find that most ARE overseen by state and local governments, not all simply pointed directly at specific dubious projects. That is my point completely. There are TWO different issues. One, the normal earmarks that go through process once funds are granted and the other the little [or not so little] bridges to nowhere, boat ramps and Prairie Parkways..

I am arguing that the Federal system of appropriations has to be cleaned up and monitored with COMPLETE transparency and monitoring. That process has started but is not complete by a long shot. Special interests have to be taken out of the process. But keep in mind that some of those alderman, town councilmen, state representatives, mayors, and governors are part of the "special interests" as they try and poach projects from one district to another for their area's benefit.

As long as money and politicians are in the mix there is not ever going to be a perfect system. But it seems to me that when you reduce the number of politicians you reduce the number of possible problems [and make it easier to monitor their ethics and projects]. You also gain economy of scale and reduce the bureaucratic costs associated with what would be a multiplication of administrations if each state started having to deal with all the things the Federal government now funds.

Keeping the system as streamlined as possible is the best way to monitor it and work on reducing the corruption.

McBear,
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 03:47 PM
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Let me see if I've got it right: Earmarking projects to states is not corrupt because the states benefit from it while they oversee it.

B

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
There's that libertarian I know . . . it has been so long that we cannot comprehend anything other than the federal government taking care of us (we rhetorically meaning the citizens of this country). Imagine if those dollars didn't go to Washington to be routed back. Then, Ky could buy it's own cancer machine and Phoenix could fix its own water issue.
Sleepy little Phoenix did not have the tax base in 1950 to build its own systems, even if it was sending NO money to Washington. With a city population of 100K and a state population of 750K, it required a lot of good ol boy help to pull Arizona up to the 20th Century.

Just 10 years later Phoenix's population was 4X and Arizona was 2X thanks to Federal money from Goldwater and Hayden and Udall and Rhodes.

Now, 50 years later [2000], Phoenix metro is 32X the population of 1950.

Central Arizona Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My point, not meaning to pick on Phoenix as I can do the same with nearly EVERY area is that you cannot build a dynamic country with a fully decentralized funding system. Every country that has tried it wallows in mediocracy.

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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 04:06 PM
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Let me see if I've got it right: Earmarking projects to states is not corrupt because the states benefit from it while they oversee it.

B
You are assuming the earmark is corrupt. Of the thousands of funding projects that are defined as "earmarks", many are perfectly normal projects that have no corruption associated with them.

Corruption assumes that there was a motive for personal gain.

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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Sleepy little Phoenix did not have the tax base in 1950 to build its own systems, even if it was sending NO money to Washington. With a city population of 100K and a state population of 750K, it required a lot of good ol boy help to pull Arizona up to the 20th Century.

Just 10 years later Phoenix's population was 4X and Arizona was 2X thanks to Federal money from Goldwater and Hayden and Udall and Rhodes.

Now, 50 years later [2000], Phoenix metro is 32X the population of 1950.

Central Arizona Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My point, not meaning to pick on Phoenix as I can do the same with nearly EVERY area is that you cannot build a dynamic country with a fully decentralized funding system. Every country that has tried it wallows in mediocracy.
Imagine all those areas that did it all by themselves . . .

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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 04:16 PM
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Imagine all those areas that did it all by themselves . . .
Name one.

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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 04:29 PM
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Name one what? A city/area that became prosperous without re-routing a river? Or prosperity without federal help? I know that the first city that I would name, you'll have a list of federal projects handy that they've received, so I won't feed you. Nor will I agree that the federal government was required to take and give back the funding for those projects for them to happen . . .

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