Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' kids... - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' kids...

Finally! Some sanity in an otherwise insane government action!

Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' kids

Don't believe everything you think
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 02:55 PM
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I think this one is going to be like the energizer bunny and just keep going and going.

I think Texas was out of line in HOW they executed their actions in this whole adventure BUT they are compelled by law to take the safety of minor children above everything else, even overstepping authority.

If they were concerned that even a single minor girl was being used for sex by an adult, they had a legal and moral duty to stop it. And when that was extrapolated by 400+ the safety [and the legal issues] were both multiplied and open to more scrutiny.

I doubt this is over.

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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 03:04 PM
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I think the Texas Supreme Court will have the final say.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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But to take 400+ children in a raid w/out any thought of due process seems to me way over the top! The court's decision was unanimous and it makes a lot more sense than what the state did. I agree this is far from over, but I hope the kids have to be returned home and then the state can go after them in the courts, one at a time. As they should have done in the first place. I mean for God's sake, they took a bunch of infants right out of their mother's hands. That is nuts!

Court says Texas wrong to take children - UPI.com

Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' children - CNN.com

Texas seizure of polygamist-sect kids thrown out - Yahoo! News

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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 07:27 PM
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If one child is being abused, the state can and should step in to protect that child. But nowhere do they have the right to take kids from all the neighborhood homes. Their problem was that they took action based on a fake phone call from a woman in Colorado Springs and they had no positive identification of the victim in question.

This is nanny government on display at its worst. They got on their horse and rode off in all directions.

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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
If one child is being abused, the state can and should step in to protect that child. But nowhere do they have the right to take kids from all the neighborhood homes. Their problem was that they took action based on a fake phone call from a woman in Colorado Springs and they had no positive identification of the victim in question.

This is nanny government on display at its worst. They got on their horse and rode off in all directions.
i am not a fan of FLDS but i agree with you as TX had no solid anything. hearsay doesn't fly in court.



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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
But to take 400+ children in a raid w/out any thought of due process seems to me way over the top! The court's decision was unanimous and it makes a lot more sense than what the state did. I agree this is far from over, but I hope the kids have to be returned home and then the state can go after them in the courts, one at a time. As they should have done in the first place. I mean for God's sake, they took a bunch of infants right out of their mother's hands. That is nuts!
I know what you mean but the number is not relevant to the issue. Look at it from the Child Services side. IF they thought abuse was being committed at that compound by adults against children, AND they already knew this particular sect had a history of condoned underage sex by the adult males in the compound, THEN they were bound to act, by law. Due process takes place [at least in most states] once the children are safe and out of harm's way.

The Jonestown event in 1978 pretty much defined how many agencies look at cults, non traditional religious compounds and safety of children.

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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
If one child is being abused, the state can and should step in to protect that child. But nowhere do they have the right to take kids from all the neighborhood homes. Their problem was that they took action based on a fake phone call from a woman in Colorado Springs and they had no positive identification of the victim in question.

This is nanny government on display at its worst. They got on their horse and rode off in all directions.
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i am not a fan of FLDS but i agree with you as TX had no solid anything. hearsay doesn't fly in court.
At the time of the call, they assumed it was legit and acted in accordance to their guidelines.

Had they gone through a long extruded due process while all the kids were still there and something like Jonestown or Waco unfolded, everyone would have been on their ass to act quicker. "Think of the Children" and all.

And considering Bushie signed off on the legislation that authorized this type of action in the Lone Star State, I would think you guys on the Right would feel right at home with the "screw the law, let's just do this" attitude.

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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 08:25 PM
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[QUOTE=mcbear;2897298]I know what you mean but the number is not relevant to the issue. Look at it from the Child Services side. IF they thought abuse was being committed at that compound by adults against children, AND they already knew this particular sect had a history of condoned underage sex by the adult males in the compound, THEN they were bound to act, by law. Due process takes place [at least in most states] once the children are safe and out of harm's way.

The Jonestown event in 1978 pretty much defined how many agencies look at cults, non traditional religious compounds and safety of children.[/QUOTE]

As I recall, Jonestown mass suicide happened on foreign shores when a congressman tried to visit the cult location. There was no comparable intervention to learn from. You would be more accurate to identify Waco as the premier comparable. Brought to us by Janet Reno who declared child abuse cause for federal invasion.

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