Republican Apocalypse coming? Third conservative district lost - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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How can you blame the voters? They just get to choose between the giant douche and the turd sandwich. The parties choose which douche and which turd will represent them.
Apparently you have never heard of a thing called "primaries". In truth, the parties have little to do with it. What really chooses the douche and the turd is simple cold hard cash. We have built an electoral system that runs on money and simplistic marketing crap, and the two parties compete within that system for the cash so they can sell the crap. And this is not really the party's fault, it is the result of a number of misguided Supreme Court decisions that equated cash with free speech. So instead of free elections, we get the equivalent of an electoral stock market, where who ever the market players feel is up or down benefit or lose financing. It is the Democratic Party that has consistently fought this system and attempted to reform it, it is the Republicans who consisently block any reform. Now that they are the ones whose stock is down, perhaps that will change, but now I am sure the Democrats will rethink their position. Perhaps we are simply stuck in an endless loop.

If you want to see a third party effort, one thing is needed: cash. The Republican Party, back when they were the liberals, was a third party effort. It got off the ground because it attracted support from Northern financial interests who wanted high tariffs and free labor, which neither the Whigs or Democrats supported. When an issue comes up that meets that kind of criteria, things will change, otherwise, people will piss and moan about the two party system just like they have done for the last 100 years. Get out a check book, get off your ass, then bitch.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Which of our two parties wants to act toward abdicating their lock on the system, or the power that system imposes on the electorate? Tell me which one, and that is the one I'll support. Most Americans hear three political voices in our country, Republican, Democrat, and the Lunatic Fringe. They were born into a system that promotes that image, and they'll likely die believing in that image as an inescapable truth.
^......

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 01:40 PM
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Apparently you have never heard of a thing called "primaries". In truth, the parties have little to do with it. What really chooses the douche and the turd is simple cold hard cash.
I totally agree with you on the cash thing. And I get how the "primaries" work. However, when I look at the people who ran in the primaries, I see a collection of senators, members of congress, governors, ex-governors, ex-state senators, etc. Basically a collection of party members with some sort of proven political experience and political capital they can leverage. So they get into the race and then the people vote for which one they want to win the nomination.

Here is what I don't understand (not facetiously, I honestly don't understand the process): did those senators, congress members, governors, etc. all have to go through some sort of primary in order to win the party's nomination to run for that office? Or were they just selected by the party apparatus? Because if they didn't have to go through some sort of public vetting process to get that first office, how can there be a free choice in the presidential primary process? You still get to choose from the collection of douches and turds that the part puts in front of you in order to determine which douche will battle which turd.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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No, like I said, it's like the stock market. Money is not going to go to somebody who walks in off the street, it is going to go to a proven name-brand. Senator So and So has a name, he has a following, and his ideas are popular with the public right now, so his stock is up, and the investors buy in hoping for dividends later, in the form of a nice bridge to nowhere in their neighborhood. This is why you see hacks putting two ton 10 Commandent monuments or making inmates wear pink underwear - they all want publicity so they can attract investors. Money in the end wins out, because people vote based on what they hear, so whoever buys the biggest megaphone wins.


The real cure is public financing of elections. But you push that, and the GOP shouts COMMUNISM!. Maybe we could use a little communism.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
It is the Democratic Party that has consistently fought this system and attempted to reform it, it is the Republicans who consisently block any reform. Now that they are the ones whose stock is down, perhaps that will change, but now I am sure the Democrats will rethink their position. Perhaps we are simply stuck in an endless loop.
.
Then you need to inform Nancy Pelosi, Edward Kennedy, William Jefferson and a few other career democrats because they, apparently, didn't get the memo.

Neither party will allow any kind of 'system reform' because it will threaten their lock on power. When hacks like you and Jay get the message that neither party holds the answer to the problems we face today, then it will no longer be the same old endless tug of war bullshit that we've seen the last 50 years. Until then, you deserve what you get. I hope you have a good inventory of ream cream because if any of these clowns get elected president (and one of them will), you're gonna need it.

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 02:50 PM
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It all has to do with the Foundation. I come from a small state. I have watched small town politicians who were clerks, insurance salesmen, lawyers, disc jockeys and doctors running for office. They usually start at State Representative or State Senator then try to move up to US Representative. Most, if not all their money in their first run is local, not national or party. So there is NOTHING that says they can't run on any platform they chose. We have had one man run for Governor and Senator several times who has run on a pro hemp platform [nearly won] by the name of Gatewood Galbreath.

What this says is that any third party has to build a friggin foundation. It is not going to start at the Presidential or Senate/House level. It is going to start at the State House or State Senate level and build from there. But most people are too impatient and lack the desire to roll their sleeves up and do the heavy lifting required to build a new party.

It doesn't happen by magic. Who on here will start running.

McBear,
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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jlomon View Post
How can you blame the voters? They just get to choose between the giant douche and the turd sandwich. The parties choose which douche and which turd will represent them.
Hear, hear!
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 03:01 PM
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 04:54 PM
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Nader? Your real problem is as much the lack of a real third party leader as it is the system. Given the realities the Democrats are the only choice at this time. Make another one viable, and who knows what would happen.
"Published May 14, 2008

Nader puts people ahead of business in Olympia speech
BY BRAD SHANNON

Frequent presidential candidate Ralph Nader dropped by Olympia today, telling supporters at a local-owned bookstore that he’d fight to put people ahead of corporate interests.

"That’s the central issue: corporate power. Is it going to take over our government? It already has," Nader told close to 70 people gathered inside Orca Books in downtown Olympia.

The longtime consumer advocate has a 12-issues list that includes a single-payer health care system such as Canada's, cuts in military spending and impeachment of President Bush. Nader also favors government promotion of solar energy and opposition to nuclear power and a national carbon pollution tax.

He also would seek a crackdown on "corporate crime," repeal certain federal laws he deems as anti-labor and curtail the individual rights of people who are extended to corporations.

And he issued a copy of a letter he was sending today to The Boeing Co.'s chief executive, James McNerney, in Illinois, complimenting the company for slowing its production of the 787 Dreamliner jet with an eye to putting safety first.

Nader is running for the fourth time in Washington, having collected less than 1 percent of the state's vote in 2004, and it looks like he could be a spoiler again in some of the 45 states he hopes to qualify in for the Nov. 4 ballot. He compared his campaign to other social movements that took repeated efforts to succeed, such as abolition of slavery or giving women the right to vote.

He dismissed concerns that he might take votes from one party nominee or the other, contending a recent National Journal poll showed he'd take 5 percent of the vote with equal shares from Republican John McCain and the Democrats.

A Portland, Ore.-based consumer lawyer, Greg Kafoury, urged people in the audience to make donations that would be matched up to $250 by the government's presidential campaign fund. In the end three people donated $250, and Nader later signed books for them and posed for pictures with admirers of his decades-long consumer activism."

$750 big-ones for muh man...not bad, huh? Tremble in fear, majors.
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-14-2008, 05:00 PM
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Your words.

My my, with all the Jayhawk crowd here constantly reminding us of the "unpopular Congress", it turns out the most unpopular Congressmen are all Republicans. Are people final sick of this collection of religious kooks, earmark spend-freaks, rich-guy tax cut bag men, environmental rapists and men's room fornicators? Well, looks like even their own voters are. And they threw everything at the guy: they tried to tag him with "Nancy Pelosi is a queer-loving San Francisco liberal", "Obama's pastor is a crazy nigger", "Obama is a Socialist Muslim", and it all failed:

no one else's
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