Lowering the BARR - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 03:17 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
In our political system we form our coalitions before elections. What you are suggesting is a system that forms coalitions after elections which you see in some European countries. This is such a drastic change that I doubt one would ever see it here.

Another popular liberal dream is to establish a true "democratic election" by getting rid of the electoral college. These are the same people who devised the proportional delegate allocation and the superdelegate system for the Democrat party and for the entertainment of the rest of us. Ain't gonna happen.
The Electoral College is the biggest part of the whole two party rig. It is the lack of a proportional awarding of congressional seats and the failure to allow the popular election of the president that kills all third parties, forever. The US has always been a winner-take all geographic spoils system. As long as it remains that way, the parties with huge supplies of money and huge organizations will always dominate, and third parties will be delegated to being at the mercy of the media. If 10% of the Congress reflected the typical non-major party vote, they would have a voice in our so-called democracy and they would have a chance to influence legislation as a swing vote. Instead, they never get shit. Welcome to America. The one with a real dream is you, the predominate leftist party has just as much a vested interest in keeping it the way it is as the one on the right does.

We have seen the results of the Electoral College system in the election of George Bush, a president who used the spoils system to his total advantage, waging wars the populace does not want while raping the treasury for the rich. This country has been reduced to a banana republic, complete with worthless currency and a two-class economy. What we have been witnessing is the failure of the US Constitutional system, a 19th Century anachronism that needs an update badly to reflect a maturing society.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 05-12-2008 at 03:24 PM.
FeelTheLove is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
The Libertarian Party is the most viable third party in the country. Should they abandon their agenda and their hopes because they aren't viable enough?
I agree that they are the MOST viable in the country but they have done little to build an infrastructure necessary to either run a national campaign or, should they actually win it, build a coalition with the other two parties in Congress. A Libertarian President without either party's support for at least some core issues will prove a nightmare.

I just wish they would start by having serious Congressional contenders, building that foundation and then a Presidential candidate would not seem so much like a spoiler and instead look like a viable candidate.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 03:54 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Funding, funding, funding, They have a vast array of candidates in a vast array of races from local to national, but lack sufficient funding to promote most candidates on a level playing field. Then you have the 'herding cats' syndrome that looms even larger for libertarians than it does for democrats. Most libertarians are not purists, and have some small personal agendas that other libertarians don't...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
In our political system we form our coalitions before elections. What you are suggesting is a system that forms coalitions after elections which you see in some European countries. This is such a drastic change that I doubt one would ever see it here.

Another popular liberal dream is to establish a true "democratic election" by getting rid of the electoral college. These are the same people who devised the proportional delegate allocation and the superdelegate system for the Democrat party and for the entertainment of the rest of us. Ain't gonna happen.
In our political system the coalitions are well established no matter who the candidates are. The election is not particularly relevant to the coalition process. That is why a third party would have to build after an election since there is not an established infrastructure for it.

As for the removal of the Electoral College, I believe you will find that, depending on which state is pushing it [or when - 1993 or 2001 as two examples] desire for change is pretty evenly split between the parties.

On the other hand, if you feel a system that was intended to "carry the voters wishes" to the Capitol at a time when technology did not allow timely counting of votes in a national election to be more significant than true democracy of 1 person, 1 vote, so be it. But I am not sure that is a "liberal dream". I think that is a dream of Democracy [you know, that idealism we tell everyone we believe in and push to the world.

And as for the Superdelegates, I could not agree more. It is a braindead system.

Your vision of the Electoral College might be clouded by its use by Bush to gain the Presidency even though he lost the popular vote by 543,895 votes. It's OK, he made up for it by being the least popular President in HISTORY.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 04:01 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Gregs300CD's Avatar
 
Date registered: May 2005
Vehicle: 1982 300CD
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 5,044
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Exactly, they need funding to bombard people with images to implant a choice into their heads. They can't win on a platform.

Pft, what is this, 1890?
Gregs300CD is offline  
post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Funding, funding, funding, They have a vast array of candidates in a vast array of races from local to national, but lack sufficient funding to promote most candidates on a level playing field. Then you have the 'herding cats' syndrome that looms even larger for libertarians than it does for democrats. Most libertarians are not purists, and have some small personal agendas that other libertarians don't...
Substitute the word Democrat for Libertarian in that last sentence. It meshes perfectly.

But you are correct. Funding is the issue. That is why I think FOUNDATION is so important. You can build the foundation with small individual budgets with the right candidates. That is how you end up with wild duck democrats or bluedog dems. They are able to work a small district, one at a time. Over three cycles they have a small foundation built and it starts growing. But national funding won't occur until there is a foundation. Folks won't commit to fringe.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 07:00 PM
~BANNED~
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2002 clk320
Location: Lancaster, Kentucky
Posts: 8,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Sounds to me as if we're Raising the Barr...
GeeSe?
the clk man is offline  
post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 08:47 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Sounds to me as if we're Raising the Barr...
Amen to that.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
Botnst is offline  
post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 08:49 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
The Electoral College is the biggest part of the whole two party rig. It is the lack of a proportional awarding of congressional seats and the failure to allow the popular election of the president that kills all third parties, forever. The US has always been a winner-take all geographic spoils system. As long as it remains that way, the parties with huge supplies of money and huge organizations will always dominate, and third parties will be delegated to being at the mercy of the media. If 10% of the Congress reflected the typical non-major party vote, they would have a voice in our so-called democracy and they would have a chance to influence legislation as a swing vote. Instead, they never get shit. Welcome to America. The one with a real dream is you, the predominate leftist party has just as much a vested interest in keeping it the way it is as the one on the right does.

We have seen the results of the Electoral College system in the election of George Bush, a president who used the spoils system to his total advantage, waging wars the populace does not want while raping the treasury for the rich. This country has been reduced to a banana republic, complete with worthless currency and a two-class economy. What we have been witnessing is the failure of the US Constitutional system, a 19th Century anachronism that needs an update badly to reflect a maturing society.
Great thinking.

Now explain why we have 2 senators from every state.

Thank you.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
Botnst is offline  
post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-12-2008, 09:12 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Jul 2007
Vehicle: 1973 450 SL
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 5,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
I agree that they are the MOST viable in the country but they have done little to build an infrastructure necessary to either run a national campaign or, should they actually win it, build a coalition with the other two parties in Congress. A Libertarian President without either party's support for at least some core issues will prove a nightmare.

I just wish they would start by having serious Congressional contenders, building that foundation and then a Presidential candidate would not seem so much like a spoiler and instead look like a viable candidate.
I agree with you for the most part. Libertarians would do well to follow the model of the Democrats. "Born to govern," these folks take their role very seriously by working the system from the bottom up. Dems study public policy, they engage in the activities of the system, they infiltrate everything from school boards, water boards, election boards, utility boards. They become lawyers, state legislators and governors at a high rate.

All you have to do is study HRC and BHO. Both have had unbridled ambition for decades.

Charter member of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy and proud of it.

God Bless the America we're trying to create.
--Hillary Rodham Clinton
bottomline1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    lowering ML soulsociety714 W163 M-Class 18 03-17-2010 07:44 PM
    lowering, can someone help me..... Dustincls550 C219 CLS-Class 3 04-06-2007 01:01 PM
    Lowering Chris A R170 SLK-Class 2 10-19-2006 01:50 AM
    Lowering kit / lowering springs??? Guest Vintage Mercedes-Benz 1 04-04-2006 07:51 AM
    Lowering Guest (MBNZ) W202 C-Class 1 02-03-2002 05:02 PM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome