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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:08 AM
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Which is the polar opposite of conservative, liberal or radical (or neither)?
Isn't radical just a degree of either conservative or liberal?

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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Isn't radical just a degree of either conservative or liberal?
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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:12 AM
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Depends. I can easily see 'radical' as a polar opposite of 'traditional'. Conservative = traditional, right? Is 'radical conservatism' not an oxymoron of sorts?

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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Depends. I can easily see radical as the polar opposite of traditional. Conservative = traditional, right?
Some people use that definition.

My preferred definition is utlilitarian or pragmatic, A conservative is he who wishes to maintain the status quo. A liberal is somebody who wishes to upset the status quo and establish a new vision of society.

For example, FDR was a liberal when he came to power. His programs and ideas became the legal paradigm of the country. Since then, the people who support his programs have fought tooth and nail to retain them. Holding to programs that are 70 years old is no longer a challenge to status quo, it is status quo.

They have become an institutional revolutionary party (thank you Mexico, that ultimate confluence of irony).

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The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:21 AM
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Depends. I can easily see 'radical' as a polar opposite of 'traditional'. Conservative = traditional, right? Is 'radical conservatism' not an oxymoron of sorts?
'radical conservatism' =

No offense, Jay.


As to your first point...

Brooklyn College Core Curriculum:
The Shaping of the Modern World

Section 10: The Liberal Tradition /Shaping of the Modern World/Brooklyn College

Section 10: The Liberal Tradition
Introduction: This Week's Goals

We have already discussed the origins of "liberal" ideas: they are the beliefs about government and economics that we saw developed during the Enlightenment, the American Revolution, and the French Revolution. Important contributors to the formation of the liberal tradition include: John Locke, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Jefferson, and Adam Smith. We have already read these authors!

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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Digmenow View Post
'radical conservatism' =

No offense, Jay.


As to your first point...

Brooklyn College Core Curriculum:
The Shaping of the Modern World

Section 10: The Liberal Tradition /Shaping of the Modern World/Brooklyn College

Section 10: The Liberal Tradition
Introduction: This Week's Goals

We have already discussed the origins of "liberal" ideas: they are the beliefs about government and economics that we saw developed during the Enlightenment, the American Revolution, and the French Revolution. Important contributors to the formation of the liberal tradition include: John Locke, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Jefferson, and Adam Smith. We have already read these authors!
Imagine confusing any of today's self-described liberals with John Locke.

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The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:28 AM
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^^ Fine points, I suggest that we can all agree that there is not necessarily a conflict between 'liberal' and 'radical' (one can be liberal, radical, or both). But how can one be both radical and conservative (reactionary, perhaps?)? I'm just not feelin' it...

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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:33 AM
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Imagine confusing any of today's self-described liberals with John Locke.

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Or a fair amount of self-described "capitalists" with Adam Smith
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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
^^ Fine points, I suggest that we can all agree that there is not necessarily a conflict between 'liberal' and 'radical' (one can be liberal, radical, or both). But how can one be both radical and conservative (reactionary, perhaps?)? I'm just not feelin' it...
You've known FTL too long. He may be the face of the franchise but that doesn't mean he owns it.

Damnit. I have to leave for work now. SOMEbody has to talk poor folks with bad credit into applying for another card they don't need.

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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
^^ Fine points, I suggest that we can all agree that there is not necessarily a conflict between 'liberal' and 'radical' (one can be liberal, radical, or both). But how can one be both radical and conservative (reactionary, perhaps?)? I'm just not feelin' it...
radically conservative is not a notion that fits with the American experience. In general, Americans idealize the out-of-power, idealistic fighter who "speaks truth to power". It is iconic in Hollywood portrayals of heroism. We find it easy to admire Luke Skywalker and Obe Won in every movie of consequence -- we love the archetype in the USA, but that is hardly universal.

It is very easy to find the opposite paradigm, especially in eastern cultures Confucius' model is still the predominant social vision in China and much of SE Asia. It practically worships conservatism. Hinduism is also very conservative and the social order is extremely resistant to change. In the western tradition we also have a strong adherence (I would argue is quite radical) to cultural paradigms. Over a billion people claim allegiance to the Roman Catholic Church and revere the feudalistic structure of that church. And we have the very current example of the Taliban or the cultural model of KSA.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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