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post #191 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DestroyerW140 View Post
I feel bad for the Obama's white grandmother and the black race. He said he could no more seperate himself from Wright as he could from all black people and his grandma.
Funny that stance has now changed - imagine that.

Anyone want to bet that after the election that Obama will say that he prayed on the matter and has found forgivness in his heart for Wright and suddenly there will be a reconciliation?
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post #192 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 08:23 AM
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You don't think they are trotting Wright out now to let the story run out of gas well before the general election, do you? How cynical of you to think that the American voter would tire of a story by, oh say, November after being exposed to it daily for several months.
I only wonder what the agent of Wright's drug-induced psychosis was... They should have just given him a roofie instead...

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post #193 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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In this case, one good turn deserved another.

I hate to say it, but there's a part of me that wonders if this whole thing were staged. I mean, nobody could really be that big a douchebag (Wright), could they?
I am still in awe of how whitey gets worked into a frenzy by getting glimpse of what goes on the minds of the black population that is likely not group whitey is actually scared shitless of meeting on the street. Or an alley. In the dark.

It is an indication of how little effort is being expended by either race to trust the other. My last sentence in the originating posts asks if America is ready for another hot summer of racial tension, not entirely due to global warming. If Obama is denied the nomination I don't see Denver being a pleasant place in the aftermath of some announced, back room deal. This is a genuine problem for the Democrats.

And the Reverend, as I see it, could care less about Obama's run for the POTUS. He's just another of his flock of sheep. EGO? Tell me how you believe anybody who gets up in front of a bunch of people several times a week, or a day on those special days, and preaches does not have an unmanageable ego. How do you manage, without an overdose of ego, to tell people about your relationship with God, and expect them to take you seriously?

Politicians by necessity have oversize egos. So do preachers. So does anyone who seeks to decide matters for other people, whether they actually know them or not. It is a feature of a large ego to assume your judgment is so infallible that without even knowing any of the details of someone's circumstances that you can make decisions that are in their best interests. So, I don't see the Reverend Wright as uniquely suffering from an oversize ego.

And I saw more disappointment than outrage in Obama's face. It is hard to chuck a friend under the bus, especially when you gave the friend a chance to just ride in the back....and be quiet. Obama should have known that wasn't going to go down.

Jim
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post #194 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 10:40 AM
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And the Reverend, as I see it, could care less about Obama's run for the POTUS. He's just another of his flock of sheep. EGO? Tell me how you believe anybody who gets up in front of a bunch of people several times a week, or a day on those special days, and preaches does not have an unmanageable ego. How do you manage, without an overdose of ego, to tell people about your relationship with God, and expect them to take you seriously?


Jim
The opposite of ego is servitude to others. Are you standing on a pulpit to serve yourself or to serve others as best you can? One is a noble calling, the other is not. Wright offered to join the Obama campaign, and now he is reacting as spitefully as he is able for being respectfully removed from that campaign. So don't believe for one minute that his interest in Obama is not fully vested, and that Obama is just another member of the flock. Do you believe that Wright would have been offered this stage without playing on his relationship with Obama? This disgrace of a man is using Obama toward his own political aspirations. You may find some level of nobility in that, I do not.

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post #195 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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Hate to do this to Jimbo, but...

Obama 'outraged' by Wright's remarks - CNN.com
(CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama said he is "outraged" by comments his former minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, made Monday at the National Press Club and "saddened by the spectacle."

"I have been a member of Trinity Church since 1992. I have known Rev. Wright for almost 20 years," he said at a news conference in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. "The person I saw yesterday is not the person I met 20 years ago."

Obama said he is outraged by Wright's remarks that seemed to suggest the U.S. government might be responsible for the spread of AIDS in the black community, and his equation of some American wartime efforts with terrorism.

"What particularly angered me was his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing," said Obama, who added that Wright had shown "little regard for me" and seemed more concerned with "taking center stage."

Obama said Wright's comments were not only "divisive and destructive," but they also "end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate." Watch Obama describe Wright's comments »

Obama said he did not think Wright's comments accurately portrayed the perspective of the black church and said they "certainly do not portray accurately" his own values and beliefs.

Earlier this year, some of Wright's outspoken sermons, circulated and widely discussed on the Internet and on television, became an issue in the Democratic presidential race because of the former pastor's ties to Obama.

In one sermon, Wright said America had brought the September 11, 2001, attacks upon itself. In another, he said Sen. Hillary Clinton had an advantage over Obama because she is white.

Obama gave a speech on race relations during the height of the controversy with Wright and said he rejected Wright's racially charged comments but could not repudiate the man himself.

Obama on Monday said Wright's remarks were "antithetical to our campaign, it was antithetical to what we're about." Watch Obama denounce Wright's remarks »

"I cannot prevent him from making these remarks," but "when I say I find these comments appalling I mean it. It contradicts what I'm about and who I am ... It is completely opposed to what I stand for and where I want to take this country."


In a break with previous comments, Obama focused his criticism on Wright the man, and not simply his remarks.

Obama said he gave Wright "the benefit of the doubt" before his speech on race relations.

"What we saw yesterday from Rev. Wright was a resurfacing and, I believe, an exploitation of these old divisions," Obama said.

Obama said he did not see a transcript of Wright's remarks until Tuesday.

He said he had not spoken with Wright since the minister's Monday speech, though he would not rule out a conversation with him in the future.

Obama said his relationship with Wright may have suffered irreparable harm. "There's been great damage," he said. "It may have been unintentional on his part, but I do not see that relationship being the same after this."

Asked if he would continue attending the church, Obama said "as of this point I am a member of Trinity."

He said he still values the church's community but does not want to be a distraction for those who are worshiping.
QBNCGR,

I started this thread to talk about the Reverend's outlook, as revealed in his speech. I noted in the first post I didn't think the Reverend thought Obama's quest for the Presidency was equal to the role of being Reverend Wright, so, basically, Wright's position is Obama is on his own - the Reverend only answers to God and Obama is a mere politician. If the politician is going to challenge the preacher, the Reverend made it clear he isn't taking any orders from the politician since he answers to a higher authority.

My point in starting the thread was to look at what the Reverend was saying. I don't disagree with his basic message - America is racist. We have just gotten used to it. Like a drunk who is always drunk, they learn to function drunk. Not good, but better than a non-drunk would function with the same blood alcohol level. The thread got turned into a Obama's mind is owned by the Preacher and we will be electing a crazed black preacher if we elect Obama by others. That is pure racist bullshit - from the inability to hear the Preacher's message and critically examine self and society as a whole in America, to the ease with which that unsupported conclusion is transferred to Obama. And all the "I would vote for another black guy (who isn't running, and won't ever run, so there is no way to be taken up on the offer)" stuff is just some of the old white wash to try to cover over the little spot of "maybe" I don't like Obama because he black"
concern people seem to detect.

I am also concerned that the racist nature that has been boiling away under the surface may not be contained if whitey persists in back room dealings and Clinton is the candidate. I lived in Germany in the 1960's so I didn't see first hand the responses in the streets, but it seemed once shit started burning it was easier to spread the fires than to put them out. Denying there is a problem and staying focussed on that lapel pin bullshit is a sure way to fan the flames.

It is truly amazing. A guy with hundreds of press people researching to catch him in any kind of knotted logic or even vaguely contradicting statements is dismissed as a liar, yet we are supposed to believe these statements of lapel pins and his wife's statements as genuine reasons not to vote for him as the whole story. Sounds like the white stuff in chicken shit to me. Jim
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post #196 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 10:47 AM
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Pastor vs The Pol: Did Wright Mean To Hurt Obama?

Chicagoans Who Know Both Men Tell The Story Of Betrayal; Controversy Continues On Despite Obama's Best Attempt To Cut It Off


CHICAGO (CBS) ― Chicago friends of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Sen. Barack Obama say both men are simply sad following a controversy and eventual falling out that came to a head Tuesday.

Just how did the battle of wills play out behind the scenes?

CBS 2 Chief Correspondent Jay Levine reports Obama felt betrayed and Wright felt sand-bagged. Father Michael Pfleger of St. Sabina Church said he has been speaking to both men as the events of the past 24 hours unfolded.

He counseled Obama Tuesday morning, and while CBS 2 talked to him Tuesday evening, Rev. Wright called his cell phone.

"I don't think he had any intention to hurt Barack. He loves Barack," Pfleger said. "I think the pain and the moment took over."

That moment was in a place Pfleger called "a lion's den" – The National Press Club.

"The people who were close to him pleaded with him not to do it," said WVON radio host Roland Martin. "We knew what the questions were gonna be, but it really was the antics, the looks the dismissive tone, the strut. It was being flippant, some say being pompous and arrogant."

That appearance Monday was far from a pastor's comfort zone, like St. Sabina on the South Side, the site of Wright's first appearance after his words drove a wedge between him and Obama.

Fr. Pfleger says Wright's first instinct Monday was to defend his reputation.

"Sometimes you get caught up in the emotional response because you're hurt, because you're injured," Pfleger said.

Mayor Richard M. Daley called the current flap a dangerous distraction.

"You better believe it; you cannot have distractions in any campaign," Daley said.

Meanwhile Sen. Hillary Clinton's supporters said the relationship between Obama and Wright raised new doubts about who'd be the better candidate to take on presumptive Republican nominee Sen. John McCain.

"The Republicans are salivating over this issue," said Clinton supporter Delmarie Cobb.

"People are still saying how could you, as the pastor, knowing full well this is your member has a chance to do something no other African American has had a chance to do in the history of this nation, and you still move forward as if its no big deal," Martin said.

It's clearly a big deal now. The polls already show that. Though a whole lot can happen between now and November. Obama, if he survives and wins the nomination, can only hope other issues will make voters forget about Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

cbs2chicago.com - Pastor vs The Pol: Did Wright Mean To Hurt Obama?
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post #197 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 10:47 AM
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Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out hate; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.
Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction. The chain reaction of evil -- hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars -- must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.

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Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #198 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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The opposite of ego is servitude to others. Are you standing on a pulpit to serve yourself or to serve others as best you can? One is a noble calling, the other is not. Wright offered to join the Obama campaign, and now he is reacting as spitefully as he is able for being respectfully removed from that campaign. So don't believe for one minute that his interest in Obama is not fully vested, and that Obama is just another member of the flock. Do you believe that Wright would have been offered this stage without playing on his relationship with Obama? This disgrace of a man is using Obama toward his own political aspirations. You may find some level of nobility in that, I do not.
You miss my point, likely because I am not making it clear.

I think preaching is a profession. All preachers would stop if they couldn't make a living doing it. Within the profession they have a bunch of organized shit, like all professions (well, except maybe prostitutes?), to promote via internal politics, not only the profession but individuals. Wright is a member of the profession, and a prominent one. I don't for a minute believe Wright is "behind" Obama's quest. Never was. The profession of preachers doesn't let them be subject to politicians. They are subject to God. And I think the same is the case for all preachers. Most will never rise in their professional organization to the level of Wright. That is not likely only due to a lesser ego or ego potential. It may well be they aren't as talented.

I don't buy into the political organization of religion. So, I don't subscribe so much to the servitude concept. It is mainly a profession. I don't really consider the garbageman in servitude, and his job is actually as necessary as a preacher's and likely provides him less comfort and security than the preacher's does for him.

The issue here is can you hear what the egotistical, douche bag preacher who deserves to be thrown under the bus by Obama is saying? Or is it so offensive it can't be heard?

Jim
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post #199 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 11:08 AM
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Yes, I hear what the man is saying, and I agree with much (but not all) of it. I also recognize that he owes Obama a certain level of respect and deference, since it was Obama who offered him this stage in the first place. Furthermore, I believe that Wright has abused and taken advantage of his relationship with Obama, at Obama's expense and for his own personal gain. Finally, I believe the gist of his message is essentially lost due to the inappropriate venue he has abused to convey it.

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post #200 of 279 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 11:27 AM
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QBNCGR,
My point in starting the thread was to look at what the Reverend was saying. I don't disagree with his basic message - America is racist. We have just gotten used to it. Like a drunk who is always drunk, they learn to function drunk. Not good, but better than a non-drunk would function with the same blood alcohol level. The thread got turned into a Obama's mind is owned by the Preacher and we will be electing a crazed black preacher if we elect Obama by others. That is pure racist bullshit - from the inability to hear the Preacher's message and critically examine self and society as a whole in America, to the ease with which that unsupported conclusion is transferred to Obama. And all the "I would vote for another black guy (who isn't running, and won't ever run, so there is no way to be taken up on the offer)" stuff is just some of the old white wash to try to cover over the little spot of "maybe" I don't like Obama because he black"
concern people seem to detect.

I am also concerned that the racist nature that has been boiling away under the surface may not be contained if whitey persists in back room dealings and Clinton is the candidate. I lived in Germany in the 1960's so I didn't see first hand the responses in the streets, but it seemed once shit started burning it was easier to spread the fires than to put them out. Denying there is a problem and staying focussed on that lapel pin bullshit is a sure way to fan the flames.

It is truly amazing. A guy with hundreds of press people researching to catch him in any kind of knotted logic or even vaguely contradicting statements is dismissed as a liar, yet we are supposed to believe these statements of lapel pins and his wife's statements as genuine reasons not to vote for him as the whole story. Sounds like the white stuff in chicken shit to me. Jim
I like you feel free and think it is ok to throw around the term "whitey". What if others on this board started to throw around the N word. Would you be ok with that?

You know that every politician has hundreds of reporters looking at them from every angle. They are all looking to make a name for themselves and break a big story.

I have never heard anyone say they are not going to vote for Obama because of not wearing a lapel pin or what his wife has said. What people have been saying is that these are two more items to take into account in judging the man against the other candidates.

You are the one that wants to make everything racial. You are starting to look more and more like Cartman when he does not get his way "screw you guys I'm taking my toys and going home".

You know sometimes a turd is just a turd and statements are just a statment and having nothing to do with race. Despite what you apparently want to believe.
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