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post #21 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 12:45 PM
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Yeah, that's right, Bruce. Usually God or Zeus or Allah talks to the leader who then tells the little people to go fight the wars because God (Zeus, Allah, Shiva etc) is in their side.


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post #22 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 02:43 PM
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You would be a Sunni Muslim?

I think your assertion concerning Shiites has been contested by them since shortly after Muhammad's death.

B

I'm a Muslima and because of shia the likes of me are also called sunnis. But if one is interested in following Islam, I think it should be the Islam of the Prophet Muhammed not any thing else, regardless of the terminology.

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Which is more important in a sociological sense, Arab vs Persian or Shia vs Sunna?
If I understood your question right, there was no Arab vs Persian until the Shia vs Sunna was actually there. There were times in the region's history when it was Turks vs Arabs but there are no bitter feelings in both sides now. Observing shia raise their children on tremendous doses of hatred towards muslims. I visit shia forums and sites but the amount of hatred is unbearable that I just leave and never come back.

I have nothing against Persians/Iranians as people. On the other hand, I have a big issue against Iraqi or Irani shia militia wreaking havoc in Iraq because they were indoctrinated to seize the chance against muslims.
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post #23 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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I'm a Muslima and because of shia the likes of me are also called sunnis. But if one is interested in following Islam, I think it should be the Islam of the Prophet Muhammed not any thing else, regardless of the terminology.



If I understood your question right, there was no Arab vs Persian until the Shia vs Sunna was actually there. There were times in the region's history when it was Turks vs Arabs but there are no bitter feelings in both sides now. Observing shia raise their children on tremendous doses of hatred towards muslims. I visit shia forums and sites but the amount of hatred is unbearable that I just leave and never come back.

I have nothing against Persians/Iranians as people. On the other hand, I have a big issue against Iraqi or Irani shia militia wreaking havoc in Iraq because they were indoctrinated to seize the chance against muslims.
I think you answered my question with great lucidity.

the (few) Shia that I know believe themselves to be the true Muslims and the Sunna believers are the heretics. That is the nature of heresy -- both sides believe themselves to be true to the path -- whatever that path is. Christians have been hacking and stabbing each other for a couple thousand years and they still cannot agree on what a Christian is or is not.

The particular disagreement between Sunnis and Shiites has been ongoing for a thousand years or so and cost many thousands of lives on both sides.

Shiite page
The Origins of the Sunni/Shia split in Islam
The Origins of the Shia-Sunni Split : NPR

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post #24 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 03:44 PM
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These last couple of posts are interesting...so the assertion then is that there's Islam, and then there's Shia kind of on it's own as an ultra-violent splinter off of Islam?
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post #25 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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These last couple of posts are interesting...so the assertion then is that there's Islam, and then there's Shia kind of on it's own as an ultra-violent splinter off of Islam?
That's the Sunni view. The Shiite view is the exact opposite. There is Islam and then there is Sunni heresy.

It is quite analogous to the Christians during the reformation and counter reformation, in which European butchery reached proportions not seen since Genghis Kahn. As Tahloube indicated above, 2 major sects of Islam do not even recognize each other as Muslims. Also, she clearly indicated that this religious division transcends tribal and national differences. She has nothing against Persians but Shiites are another thing entirely. So if one Persian is Shiite and the other is Sunni, one is a dangerous heretic and the otehr is a brother (or sister).

This explains a significant source of violence in 2 other middleastern countries, in which there are a kaleidoscopic array of tribal, ethnic, and relgious divisions. It also explains why the rulers of these various countries raise the bugaboo of external threat at every opportunity -- external threats tend to unite people. Lack of external threat allows them to concentrate on their own problems.

Pretty neat, huh?

B

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post #26 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 04:27 PM
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Christians have been hacking and stabbing each other for a couple thousand years and they still cannot agree on what a Christian is or is not.

The particular disagreement between Sunnis and Shiites has been ongoing for a thousand years or so and cost many thousands of lives on both sides.
well stated.
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post #27 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Don't forget Thor
I'm not Thor at anybody. If I was I'd have to hold a grudge since Odin times.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

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post #28 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 06:46 PM
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That's the Sunni view. The Shiite view is the exact opposite. There is Islam and then there is Sunni heresy.

It is quite analogous to the Christians during the reformation and counter reformation, in which European butchery reached proportions not seen since Genghis Kahn. As Tahloube indicated above, 2 major sects of Islam do not even recognize each other as Muslims. Also, she clearly indicated that this religious division transcends tribal and national differences. She has nothing against Persians but Shiites are another thing entirely. So if one Persian is Shiite and the other is Sunni, one is a dangerous heretic and the otehr is a brother (or sister).

This explains a significant source of violence in 2 other middleastern countries, in which there are a kaleidoscopic array of tribal, ethnic, and relgious divisions. It also explains why the rulers of these various countries raise the bugaboo of external threat at every opportunity -- external threats tend to unite people. Lack of external threat allows them to concentrate on their own problems.

Pretty neat, huh?

B
That I kinda figured....I guess my question is this; is it the Shia or the Sunni who are so prone to blowing the rest of us into tiny bits?
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post #29 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 06:49 PM
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That I kinda figured....I guess my question is this; is it the Shia or the Sunni who are so prone to blowing the rest of us into tiny bits?
They would blow us to bits if they could and then do each others or in whatever order as long as someone is out
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post #30 of 101 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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That I kinda figured....I guess my question is this; is it the Shia or the Sunni who are so prone to blowing the rest of us into tiny bits?
Answer: Neither. Most Muslims of whatever sect are like anybody else: They want to live in peace and raise a family. And just like the rest of us there is some knucklehead out there who feels a need to tell other people what to do.

If the oil dependent states (US) had no reason to be in the middle east they would go back to slaughtering each other as they have been doing for a thousand years. We're just an inconvenient bump on the path.

As long as there's an Allah in heaven, there will be murderous clerics and clever politicians interpreting his will.

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