It Is A Sign the Bush Administration Policies Were Morally Corrupt and Likely Illegal - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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It Is A Sign the Bush Administration Policies Were Morally Corrupt and Likely Illegal

The President's Administration is now suffering from the previous 7 years of arrogant disregard for the Constitution of the United States, in violation of the oaths taken to uphold that document when sworn into office, disregard for the laws of the land, long standing agreements to abide by international treaties and laws, and their dependence on the silence of those they involved as the nation expresses its profound distaste for the dishonorable road they have diverted America's history onto in that 7 plus years. The lies and spin are beginning to unravel.

Bush's approval rating hit a new, all time low: AP Poll: Bush Public Approval at New Low - Politics on The Huffington Post

The corrupt strong arming of the Justice Department is becoming ever more clear as the roles of White House inner circle in providing direction to the CIA for torture is revealed. Give the CIA credit for understanding what kind of slime Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and others are, and their tactics to get these people on record as understanding their subsequent direction to violate domestic and international laws, and then give explicit direction for the same. That they hid behind memos from that sham of a Justice Department, memos that have subsequently been withdrawn, as the legal basis for their actions makes it evident how dictatorial and anti the Constitution (balance of power) this cabal of dirballs is:

Cheney, Others OK'd Harsh Interrogations - Politics on The Huffington Post

Mukasy is now holding back the last straw. A 2001 secret memo to the President's Administration is being held back citing attorney-client privilege. I think the concept of the POTUS citing attorney-client privilege to hide a document used to define US national and international policy is bizarre. He is an elected official. His decisions affect all Americans and often many citizens of the world. Unless there is a national security question, all such documents should be required to be publicly released. If national security is involved, it should be required to be released to the appropriate Senate and House members with the appropriate clearances and need to know, as with all other classified data.

This is not going to end well. Jim
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 09:09 AM
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Nobody will do anything Jim, It will be swept under the rug, put on the back burner, looked the other way and Bush and Cheney will go on retirement and all forgotten.................
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 09:18 AM
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Maybe Bush,Cheney and co. will quietly move out of the country,to the Far East perhaps,in an attempt to distance themselves from their nefarious past and escape the hue and cry of American justice.They wil of course maintain their American passports.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dope View Post
Maybe Bush,Cheney and co. will quietly move out of the country,to the Far East perhaps,in an attempt to distance themselves from their nefarious past and escape the hue and cry of American justice.They wil of course maintain their American passports.


And how did you get your name Dopey.................

Last edited by Jakarta Expat; 04-11-2008 at 09:25 AM.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 09:31 AM
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Old news is good news isn't it Jim? The numbers haven't changed much from last years polling, and they still show that Democrat lead Congress has even lower approval ratings. Even the left wing extremists at the Huffington Post can’t change that.
Maybe you should consider taking the very compliant Democrat lead Congress to task for not doing something to stop Bush instead of rubber stamping anything and everything he asks for?
Funny how the blame always stops at one doorstep when there is plenty of blame to go around.

You complain of the torture of some, yet I have to wonder what your reaction would be if your wife and/or kids lives would be in the balance on something a captured terrorist might know about, would that be any different in your opinion?
If someone else’s life is at stake it’s easy to say no torture, but when YOU have a dog in the fight things change real fast.

Citing attorney-client privilege is nothing new, it’s been done before, but I don’t imagine that you’re interested in hearing about that………….

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 09:43 AM
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@ Jakarta Expat

Strange reaction-why so sensitive?

You make repeated references to my screen name.Are you not bright enough to use Google,even if your intellect and education fail your general knowledge? Nevermind,have this on me:

Dope was borrowed into English from the Dutch word doop, "sauce." Throughout the 19th century it meant "gravy." In the North Midland United States, particularly Ohio, dope is still heard as the term for a topping for ice cream, such as syrup or a chocolate or fruit sauce. In the South, particularly in South Carolina, dope means "a cola-flavored soft drink." Dope was especially used of those medicinal preparations that produced a stupefying effect, and it even became a slang term for the dark, molasses-like form of opium that was smoked in opium dens. Some of the common modern meanings of the word dope—"a narcotic substance" and "narcotics considered as a group,"—developed from this use of the word.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 09:49 AM
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I understand that the term "dope" & doping was also used to refer to the practice of sealing the fabric of the early aeroplanes, with dope of course
So hop yourself into a big blender there boy and we will give it a try.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bruce R. View Post
Old news is good news isn't it Jim? The numbers haven't changed much from last years polling, and they still show that Democrat lead Congress has even lower approval ratings. Even the left wing extremists at the Huffington Post can’t change that.
Maybe you should consider taking the very compliant Democrat lead Congress to task for not doing something to stop Bush instead of rubber stamping anything and everything he asks for?
Funny how the blame always stops at one doorstep when there is plenty of blame to go around.

You complain of the torture of some, yet I have to wonder what your reaction would be if your wife and/or kids lives would be in the balance on something a captured terrorist might know about, would that be any different in your opinion?
If someone else’s life is at stake it’s easy to say no torture, but when YOU have a dog in the fight things change real fast.

Citing attorney-client privilege is nothing new, it’s been done before, but I don’t imagine that you’re interested in hearing about that………….
Old news would be citing old statistics. The fact that Bush's approval rating, as low as it was a year ago, has not improved and has dropped further, is not old news. It is up to date, current, news. More of America has grown weary with this Administration's choice of the expedient, path of least resistance and lowest effort route to try to realize their personal agenda. An agenda that has never been identified and debated and endorsed by the rest of the elected members of our government.

And if you bothered to read what I post regarding the severely disappointing performance of the now Democratic majority in Congress to change the course we are on by putting an end to Bush's policies, you might have skipped that comment. But, regardless, even you have acknowledged in your post that they are Bush's policies. And therefore, when they go bad, Bush deserves the blame. He deserves it because he invented the policy and then manipulated facts to have the policy implemented, a policy in Iraq that is becoming ever more apparent as a gross failure on all fronts that is also becoming ever more difficult to extract us from - it is blame he earned with all his hard work late at night in those meetings he had hoped would remain secret.

As for torture, you are right. When things become personal it is tempting to break the law. But those of us who have been raised to respect the law resist the temptation. No excuses exist for a policy that breaks laws and international treaties we have signed. Especially not twisting the arms of appointees in the Justice Department to concoct baseless memos that are subsequently hidden from Congress and the American people that supposedly provide a legal basis for such actions, when those memos are withdrawn once revealed.

Yes, it is understandable to identify with an individual in a situation as you described it, and it is a far different situation entirely when the national policy is to give in to the temptation to break laws and treaties. We like to believe we are the leader of the free world, the benchmark for human rights, pioneering the concepts of religious freedom, the equality of all regardless of race or sex. It is amazing that Americans can be spoofed into believing torture is not a violation of those themes of our Constitution, and that all Americans don't see the conflict touting one set of ideals to the world, while acting as though they didn't exist creates. It is the epitome of crass hypocrisy.

Attorney-client privilege is appropriate for your personal legal affairs. The Justice Department, or, more specific, the United States Attorney General, should not be asked to use his office to protect the President on matters of policy. All Presidents should be aware they are not allowed to circumvent or break the law, or treaties the United States has signed, with American domestic and international policy. I don't see the attorney-client privilege as applicable here. Not when it is about the business of performing the duty of the office of the President, governing the American people. Citing attorney-client privilege is tantamount to admitting the policy was illegal.

Had Bush asked for legal opinions and been given ones that were over the edge and then not implemented them, he would be on better ground to express a desire to keep the sources of such opinions secret to preserve his access to all sides of an argument to consider. But, when you make the memo the basis of your decision that the policy you are going to implement is legal, that memo belongs in the record. Unless the subject is classified for national security reasons it should be a public record. Otherwise it should be a record with distribution restrictions and classification controls on access as appropriate. All my opinion, I understand you likely have yours. We will find out who is right in time.

If Bush is impeached or brought up on charges he is then no longer dealing with American policy, and he should have the same rights to attorney-client privilege as every other American. Unless he is charged with being a terrorist, I suppose. No, even then. That was also a questionable policy that will likely be changed.

Jim
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 10:34 AM
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@ Jakarta Expat

Strange reaction-why so sensitive?

You make repeated references to my screen name.Are you not bright enough to use Google,even if your intellect and education fail your general knowledge? Nevermind,have this on me:

Dope was borrowed into English from the Dutch word doop, "sauce." Throughout the 19th century it meant "gravy." In the North Midland United States, particularly Ohio, dope is still heard as the term for a topping for ice cream, such as syrup or a chocolate or fruit sauce. In the South, particularly in South Carolina, dope means "a cola-flavored soft drink." Dope was especially used of those medicinal preparations that produced a stupefying effect, and it even became a slang term for the dark, molasses-like form of opium that was smoked in opium dens. Some of the common modern meanings of the word dope—"a narcotic substance" and "narcotics considered as a group,"—developed from this use of the word.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language.
I thought your post above was idiotic at best to even suggest Bush and Cheney would move out of the US. Neither will either be prosecuted so again stop dreamng. Maybe you have too much dope (gravy, chocolate syrup, cola flavored soft drink, opium, or narcotics) on the brain. Personally I think of you as Gravy Boy, that soft slow fattening crap for pigs. Dopey, wakeup and smell the coffee..............
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jakarta Expat View Post
I thought your post above was idiotic at best to even suggest Bush and Cheney would move out of the US. Neither will either be prosecuted so again stop dreamng. Maybe you have too much dope (gravy, chocolate syrup, cola flavored soft drink, opium, or narcotics) on the brain. Personally I think of you as Gravy Boy, that soft slow fattening crap for pigs. Dopey, wakeup and smell the coffee..............
There is lots of precedent for ex-convicts,pedophiles,fugitives etc. fleeing to places in the Far East in an attempt to escape attention or continue their dubious practices in relative obscurity.They tend to hold on to their original passports,but rarely if ever return to their home country.

I can't imagine why you are so sensitive on this subject...........
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