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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-24-2008, 09:24 PM
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What a testament to lies, piss poor planning, five years of failed policy, hubris and arrogance.

I have been to 19 funerals now. Each with the same accolades of pride that their son or husband or wife served with honor and for their country and each with the same broken family, never to be the same again. Each with the same emptiness as the colors are removed from the top of the coffin and handed to the survivor.

And not once have I seen a single Republican Congressman or Senator at any of the services for the slain warriors from the war which they so zealously fought to start.




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What about the Democrats who have so zealously fought to perpetuate the war - any of them in attendance?
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-24-2008, 09:30 PM
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What about the Democrats who have so zealously fought to perpetuate the war - any of them in attendance?
Yes, the Sixth District Congressman has been at each funeral that occurred in his district. He was also at a couple that were out of his district but the unit was located within his district.

Our new Democratic Governor has been to the last two.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-24-2008, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
What a testament to lies, piss poor planning, five years of failed policy, hubris and arrogance.

I have been to 19 funerals now. Each with the same accolades of pride that their son or husband or wife served with honor and for their country and each with the same broken family, never to be the same again. Each with the same emptiness as the colors are removed from the top of the coffin and handed to the survivor.

And not once have I seen a single Republican Congressman or Senator at any of the services for the slain warriors from the war which they so zealously fought to start.




Bear
I really feel sad that you have had to endure 19 funerals caused by a war on terror. The emptiness felt by the families is again sad and I'm sure that it is due to the loss of a son or daughter not by the call to arms that our nation relies on, no matter the belief of a political divide. I truly hope all families can in some way heal.
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-24-2008, 09:37 PM
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Yes, the Sixth District Congressman has been at each funeral that occurred in his district. He was also at a couple that were out of his district but the unit was located within his district.

Our new Democratic Governor has been to the last two.
Without a doubt, the absence of any representative is condemnable. Lots of condemnation to go around...
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-24-2008, 10:33 PM
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In the beginning it seemed to be mainly about the loss of loved one. Lately I have seen much more vocal condemnation of policy.

Many of these Guardsmen have been called to several tours and they have stretched well beyond the original call of duty. The stress and strain is showing on even folks that I have known to be battle tough warriors who don't normally flinch at anything.

There has simply been enough. We either had "Mission Accomplished" and it is time to hand over the reigns to Iraq or we didn't and we have again changed missions and are not fighting the right battle.

IF you have to go to war, you plan, execute, win/lose, hand over and leave. Whatever it is we are doing now is not a war plan, it is a business arrangement. And people are dieing.

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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-24-2008, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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There was never an exit plan because there was never any intention to exit. We all get that now, right?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-25-2008, 05:32 AM
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The Battle for Babylon like Battle of Thermopylae will cost, but it's no D-Day where over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the 'Battle of Normandy'. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces, Iraq is more like a holiday for Mr Death compared to one day of a real war, and as GS stated it's all going to plan.
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-25-2008, 07:58 AM
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Bush Given Iraq War Plan With a Steady Troop Level

Bush Given Iraq War Plan With a Steady Troop Level

WASHINGTON — Troop levels in Iraq would remain nearly the same through 2008 as they have been through most of the five years of war there, under plans presented to President Bush on Monday by the senior American commander and the top American diplomat in Iraq, senior administration and military officials said.

Mr. Bush announced no final decision on future troop levels after the video briefing by the commander, Gen. David H. Petraeus, and the diplomat, Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker. The briefing took place on the day when the 4,000th American military death of the war was reported and just after the invasion’s fifth anniversary.

But it now appears likely that any decision on major reductions in American troops from Iraq will be left to the next president. That ensures that the question over what comes next will remain in the center of the presidential campaign through Election Day.

General Petraeus, speaking to Mr. Bush by secure videoconference during a two-hour meeting of the National Security Council, recommended putting off decisions on further troop reductions for a month or two after the departure in July of five extra brigades sent last year to help secure the nation, the officials said. They spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak freely about internal deliberations.

There would be more frequent reviews after that to see when withdrawals might be allowed to resume, without any predetermined outcome and, given the time required to put troops into motion, little likelihood of big reductions on short timetables.

During the briefing to the president, General Petraeus laid out a number of potential options, the officials said, but avoided using the term “pause.” That word has gained traction here in Washington over recent weeks to describe the plateau in troop levels that is widely expected to last through the fall elections and perhaps beyond.

Instead, he described the weeks after the departure of the extra brigades ordered to Iraq in January 2007 as a period of “consolidation and evaluation,” a phrase first used publicly by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates during a visit to Iraq in February.

The officials said that Mr. Bush and General Petraeus, recognizing public and Congressional wariness about the toll of the war, would publicly hold out the possibly of withdrawing more troops, but only if conditions allowed it. Mr. Bush, in particular, is eager to end his presidency with the appearance that things are getting better in Iraq.

A review of conditions in Iraq roughly once a month, as opposed to the large, formal reviews that have taken place every six months, would be likely to prevent long debates like the one that began almost the moment General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker reported to Congress last September on the progress of the troop increase up to that point. The withdrawal of the additional troops began in December and will be completed in July.

The two men are to appear on Capitol Hill again on April 8 and 9.

These more frequent reviews are advocated, officials said, by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and by the military’s Central Command, which is responsible for operations across the region, including those in Afghanistan. The reviews would determine how many more brigades, if any, could be ordered out of Iraq in the final months of the Bush presidency.

Reducing the troops in Iraq as much as is feasible has been a priority of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who are to brief Mr. Bush this week. The Joint Chiefs have argued in favor of finding ways to ease the strain of the war in Iraq on military training and morale and to balance General Petraeus’s plans for Iraq with the need to prepare for other potential conflicts. A decision to suspend further reductions has already prompted criticism from Democrats in Congress, especially as the presidential primary campaign has intensified.

The two Democratic candidates, Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, have proposed more rapid withdrawals of troops, though on different timelines. The Republican candidate, Senator John McCain, has advocated following a policy close to that of President Bush’s.

Mr. Bush on Monday addressed the milestone of the 4,000th death during a brief statement at the State Department, where he met with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and other senior aides. In a statement that began haltingly, he expressed his sympathies for the families of those killed, both soldiers and diplomats, and sought to put their deaths in historical context.

“I have vowed in the past, and I will vow so long as I’m president, to make sure that those lives were not lost in vain; that, in fact, there is a outcome that will merit the sacrifice that civilian and military alike have made; that our strategy going forward will be aimed at making sure that we achieve victory,” he said.

By many accounts, the addition of five combat brigades last year, which raised the American troop level to a peak of nearly 170,000 from 132,000, was a factor in helping reduce violence in Iraq. But Mr. Bush and his aides are described as wary of risking the gains.

Mr. Bush, according to officials, could decide to make no further reductions in troops after the departure this summer of the last of the additional troops, leaving roughly 140,000. That number includes the 15 combat brigades in Iraq before the troop increase, as well as additional support, training and other units that are expected to stay.

Senior Army planning officers say it typically takes about 45 days to withdraw a combat brigade, meaning that only two or three more brigades — at most — could be withdrawn before the end of the year, which would leave troop levels far above 100,000.

At the same time, a fresh brigade now on the rotation schedule for Iraq would need to know 70 to 90 days in advance of a change in plans, in particular as heavy equipment is loaded long before the troops step onto transport planes.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff, as part of a study ahead of their report to Mr. Bush at the Pentagon on Wednesday, have been analyzing how those brigades that may not be sent to Iraq can be used best, with options including greater attention to training as well as whether missions or elsewhere can be bolstered.

Another factor that may complicate the decisions on troop levels this fall is the anticipation of provincial elections across Iraq in October. For each previous nationwide election, American force levels actually were increased significantly to provide security for the voting.

Michele A. Flournoy, president of the Center for a New American Security, a nonpartisan research organization, said that many factors weighed on General Petraeus and other commanders as they considered recommendations to the president. Those included the coming Iraqi regional elections, as well as the period of transition that will follow the American election in November.

Ms. Flournoy expressed concern that some officials, lawmakers and analysts were already looking beyond the Bush presidency, when, she said, the administration needed to keep pressing for more meaningful progress by the Iraqi government to provide security and bridge ethnic and sectarian divisions.

Referring to the troop increase ordered last year, she said, “The only happy ending to the surge is for it to produce some strategic results, which it has yet to do.”


Bush Given Iraq War Plan With a Steady Troop Level - New York Times
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-25-2008, 07:58 AM
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I say each family gets a piece of Cheney and Bush's financial fortunes. That will make the next dumb ass think twice before calously sending off America's youth to war.
Well spoken good sir.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-25-2008, 09:51 AM
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Battle of the Somme............ 1 July 1916, on which the British suffered 57,470 casualties, including 19,240 dead.
Battle of Iwo Jima................ February 19, 1945–March 26, 1945, 6,821 dead, 19,189 wounded, 494 missing.
Battle of the Bulge............... 16 December 1944 – 25 January 1945, 19,276 killed, 41,493 wounded, 23,554 captured or missing.
Battle of Chosin Reservoir.... November 26–December 13, 1950, 2,500 killed, 192 missing, 5,000 wounded, 7,500 frostbite casualties
Tet Offensive........................ 30 January 1968 - 23 September 1968, 6,328 killed, 20,663 wounded, 1,185 missing.

Let's keep things in perspective. Like it or not, there’s' a war going on over there, and even though a single loss is a tragedy, the losses over the total of that war are very light by comparison to anything in the past.

Something else to keep in mind, BOTH sides of the isle voted YES on that entanglement.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
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"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
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