Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2002 SLK 32 AMG, bone stock. 1987 190E 2.3-16 valve (destroyed). 2005 E320 new toy.
Location: Near Washington, DC
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
I would suggest some of the "shit" that doesn't pass muster for you is still a legitimate concern to those that have mentioned it. There are those that consider you, and the others that are so fervent in Obamaâ€™s defense, as overlooking his shortcomings with a blind eye. I understand that you may not like that, but if you try and look with both eyes open you may be able to see it. The extremists on both ends of the spectrum seem to make the most noise, and listen the least.
Bruce - the absence of any substance to any of the "issues" they've raised is what's at issue, to me. You can throw around accusations about the man being a "conniving, lying, hypocritical, BS artist politician", but as of yet, nobody has been able to substantiate them. Not just here, but in broader terms - like the media, etc.
This comment bothers me, a lot. What you are saying is that the fact that Obama clearly has a bigoted, racially divisive Pastor, and has been â€śfriendsâ€ť with him for the last 20 or so years couldnâ€™t possibly rub off on him, when it just as clearly rubbed off on his wife. Obama knew that Wright was a problem from the beginning, yet he still defends him. If this man was a white Republican, he would have been ridden out of town on a rail, and you know it.
It remains entirely possible that there's all sorts of dirt on the man, and should he get the nomination, I'm very certain the GOP war machine will try to make mincemeat of him. I'm eager to see how he holds up to that; it will reveal a lot about his character. But I'm not setting my expectations at such a level that anything they find on him would crush me.
Back to the topic at hand, there are many here who have been all too eager to take any little snippet of text on the web - no matter how unreliable - and attempt to wield it like the sword of Damocles. If they were genuinely interested in engaging in a debate on the facts, they'd have spent the extra 30 seconds to see whether or not the "accusers" stories were at all trustworthy. They aren't interested in this though; they're interested in tearing a man down any way they can.
I would suggest here that the church issues tapes of the good Reverend are something more than snippets of unrelyability.
I've heard the argument that Obama made a mistake in judgement by aligning himself with Wright. That may or may not be fair, I don't feel strongly enough either way to argue it. What the issue resulted in, however, was an absolutely brilliant, revealing bit of speech writing - delivered convincingly. As I said way back in post #151, that speech helped me figure out quite a bit about the man. I still have *lots* of questions, no doubt about it. But I see where he's going, and insofar as I have solid information, I remain intrigued enough to closely follow him between now and November. I think that's being fair to the man.
While it remains the prerogative of you, Jay, and the other myriad "haterz" to search for any reason at all not to vote for the man, the mere act of doing so is endlessly confusing to me. There's zero chance you guys will vote for him; there's zero chance that nonsense like Multipurpose regurgitated will dissuade Obama supporters, or anyone else for that matter, by itself. What then is the payoff for all the amateur mudslinging, if not to ingratiate some bizarre, twisted desire to tear a man down?
The same might be asked of those that seem to paint all that disagree with the same broad brush. The term "haterz" comes to mind as an extremely strong term for someone that doesn't agree with your point of view, as does bigot and a few of the other words that are thrown about this forum on a routine basis. It's one thing to try and make a point, but another to routinely attempt to needle the "other guy" into a rage just for the "fun" of doing so.
I'd certainly welcome a real discussion of substantive concerns over whether or not Obama has been honest, consistent, and forthright in his campaign - the shit I've been reading from you guys so far doesn't pass muster. I'm happy to go into details on why, if you'd be so kind as to condense the arguments against into bullet points.
If you recall I asked for a number posts for someone to post anything from Obama's past that showed what he has done to deserve all of this adoration, it took how many pages before someone finally came up with a site that showed something on that, and it appeared to cut him just as well as build him up. Yet before that I was called a bigot and a racistâ€¦â€¦â€¦ tell me thatâ€™s the right way to argue a pointâ€¦â€¦â€¦. I think you know better.
"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94
"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas