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post #441 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R. View Post
Damn Cuban, these guys point out that Obama is just as much a conniving, lying, hypocritical, BS artist politician as the rest of the pack and they get accused of being racist and bigoted, that just isn’t right.
Just because they don’t like the man and have pointed out some of his short comings doesn’t make them bigoted, it does make then somewhat more observant of his screw ups then those that think he is the next messiah.
Bruce - the absence of any substance to any of the "issues" they've raised is what's at issue, to me. You can throw around accusations about the man being a "conniving, lying, hypocritical, BS artist politician", but as of yet, nobody has been able to substantiate them. Not just here, but in broader terms - like the media, etc.

It remains entirely possible that there's all sorts of dirt on the man, and should he get the nomination, I'm very certain the GOP war machine will try to make mincemeat of him. I'm eager to see how he holds up to that; it will reveal a lot about his character. But I'm not setting my expectations at such a level that anything they find on him would crush me.

Back to the topic at hand, there are many here who have been all too eager to take any little snippet of text on the web - no matter how unreliable - and attempt to wield it like the sword of Damocles. If they were genuinely interested in engaging in a debate on the facts, they'd have spent the extra 30 seconds to see whether or not the "accusers" stories were at all trustworthy. They aren't interested in this though; they're interested in tearing a man down any way they can.

I've heard the argument that Obama made a mistake in judgement by aligning himself with Wright. That may or may not be fair, I don't feel strongly enough either way to argue it. What the issue resulted in, however, was an absolutely brilliant, revealing bit of speech writing - delivered convincingly. As I said way back in post #151, that speech helped me figure out quite a bit about the man. I still have *lots* of questions, no doubt about it. But I see where he's going, and insofar as I have solid information, I remain intrigued enough to closely follow him between now and November. I think that's being fair to the man.

While it remains the prerogative of you, Jay, and the other myriad "haterz" to search for any reason at all not to vote for the man, the mere act of doing so is endlessly confusing to me. There's zero chance you guys will vote for him; there's zero chance that nonsense like Multipurpose regurgitated will dissuade Obama supporters, or anyone else for that matter, by itself. What then is the payoff for all the amateur mudslinging, if not to ingratiate some bizarre, twisted desire to tear a man down?

I'd certainly welcome a real discussion of substantive concerns over whether or not Obama has been honest, consistent, and forthright in his campaign - the shit I've been reading from you guys so far doesn't pass muster. I'm happy to go into details on why, if you'd be so kind as to condense the arguments against into bullet points.
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post #442 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 05:57 PM
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I'll continue to have questions about his judgement and candor until he shows me he can bridge the divide that separates us[Barack Obama's vision of unity] and reading a prepared speech isn't going to cut it.

It's time he goes under the micro scope of the media, no more free passes.
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post #443 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Multipurpose View Post
I'll continue to have questions about his judgement and candor until he shows me he can bridge the divide that separates us[Barack Obama's vision of unity] and reading a prepared speech isn't going to cut it.

It's time he goes under the micro scope of the media, no more free passes.
That test can only be administered as a President; I am willing to take that risk with him at the helms Obama is not a token, he's da man
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post #444 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 06:06 PM
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I think it's uniquely Clintonian to assert he's received a free pass from the media, but otherwise I agree. I'm totally uninterested in candidates, positions, or arguments that cannot bear scrutiny.
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post #445 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Bruce - the absence of any substance to any of the "issues" they've raised is what's at issue, to me. You can throw around accusations about the man being a "conniving, lying, hypocritical, BS artist politician", but as of yet, nobody has been able to substantiate them. Not just here, but in broader terms - like the media, etc.

It remains entirely possible that there's all sorts of dirt on the man, and should he get the nomination, I'm very certain the GOP war machine will try to make mincemeat of him. I'm eager to see how he holds up to that; it will reveal a lot about his character. But I'm not setting my expectations at such a level that anything they find on him would crush me.

Back to the topic at hand, there are many here who have been all too eager to take any little snippet of text on the web - no matter how unreliable - and attempt to wield it like the sword of Damocles. If they were genuinely interested in engaging in a debate on the facts, they'd have spent the extra 30 seconds to see whether or not the "accusers" stories were at all trustworthy. They aren't interested in this though; they're interested in tearing a man down any way they can.

I've heard the argument that Obama made a mistake in judgement by aligning himself with Wright. That may or may not be fair, I don't feel strongly enough either way to argue it. What the issue resulted in, however, was an absolutely brilliant, revealing bit of speech writing - delivered convincingly. As I said way back in post #151, that speech helped me figure out quite a bit about the man. I still have *lots* of questions, no doubt about it. But I see where he's going, and insofar as I have solid information, I remain intrigued enough to closely follow him between now and November. I think that's being fair to the man.

While it remains the prerogative of you, Jay, and the other myriad "haterz" to search for any reason at all not to vote for the man, the mere act of doing so is endlessly confusing to me. There's zero chance you guys will vote for him; there's zero chance that nonsense like Multipurpose regurgitated will dissuade Obama supporters, or anyone else for that matter, by itself. What then is the payoff for all the amateur mudslinging, if not to ingratiate some bizarre, twisted desire to tear a man down?

I'd certainly welcome a real discussion of substantive concerns over whether or not Obama has been honest, consistent, and forthright in his campaign - the shit I've been reading from you guys so far doesn't pass muster. I'm happy to go into details on why, if you'd be so kind as to condense the arguments against into bullet points.
You really just need to sober-up! Everything will look better in the morning. Happy Easter!!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #446 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 06:37 PM
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That test can only be administered as a President; I am willing to take that risk with him at the helms Obama is not a token, he's da man
So, ... you were a Bush supporter before he was elected the first time?

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thats what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #447 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by edfreeman View Post
Naw, similar scrutiny would be appropriate, but I was failing to see the racism parallel . . .
I wasn't actually going for the racism parallel, I was pointing out the adviser who discusses the government acting against blacks in a prejudicial way.

Of course the article did mention...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTFA
Unlike Wright's statements, Parsley's are more accepted in conservative circles, in which a strict anti-abortion sentiment is not only tolerated, but applauded. Moreover, as a white pastor expressing anger on behalf of black populations, Parsley's testimony may come off as more sympathetic and less conspiratorial than Wright's.

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post #448 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 07:58 PM
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bear often does that: he posts something that is supposed to be "the answer," and counts on us not to read it, but occasionally someone does... Typical BS (Bear Shit)...
see above

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post #449 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 08:02 PM
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What the fuck is it with people in Florida? My goodness......
Once you have hung around FARK.COM enough Florida fully explains itself. It is why it is the only state with its own tag.

McBear,
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post #450 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-22-2008, 08:05 PM
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Word is they only recorded the less-controversial sermons. The really nasty stuff was reserved for Obambi and the other parishioners ears only.
Word from...?

Sources, links?

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