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post #261 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Thanks man; wasn't sure how it would resonate, but that's reality the way I see it at least.

Obama really does stand a chance of being Reagan-like, in that he could be the catalyst we need to put what nearly 70% of people consider an inept president and his legacy behind us and move onward with some renewed hope, dignity, and mutual respect. That's probably the part I like most about him.

I will probably wildly disagree with him on certain social policy issues, and sure as shit hope he's going to cozy up to a savvy economics team before too long, but given the choices I am increasingly of the belief he's the right guy for the job.
That's exactly how I feel
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post #262 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 01:35 PM
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VERY WELL SAID!!!

This is the reality if one can see beyond the mudslinging and other noise.

I think Obama represents the thinking of a new generation, and we are ready for a leader with a fresh vision.

It's Obama.
Yes
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post #263 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 01:42 PM
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When you tie them together, my point is made. And refusing to answer my question just underscores my point!
Actually it doesn't but I will play anyway. Hold on.

Now, about your slick white speaker. What has been his history in public life? Has he been biased, homophobic, an active protester at funerals? That is one of the deviations from the parallel that invalidates your question. Answer that and we can move forward.

Now, I know many folks on the Right who go to church weekly and listen to their ministers preach about the life and teaching of Christ [being Christian and all], YET, when it comes to taking care of those who are least able to take care of themselves those very same Christians tighten their purse strings as if they were being robbed [balking the most basic teachings of Christ]. Should we also add those folks to your somewhat skewed analogy?

To maintain some credibility in the question we need to know the body of work of this slick talking white guy before we can answer your little litmus test, skewed as it is.

Still wanna play?

McBear,
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post #264 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 01:57 PM
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I 'think' the proper question would be; would you vote for Obama if he had led the same life he did, in the body and with the name of, say, John Edwards.

-Marty


"...pour out of one vessel into another; and as those old Romans robbed all the cities in the world, we skim the cream of other men's wits, pick the choice flowers of their tilled gardens to set our own sterile plots."
-a Richard Burton
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post #265 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 01:59 PM
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Actually it doesn't but I will play anyway. Hold on.

Now, about your slick white speaker. What has been his history in public life? Has he been biased, homophobic, an active protester at funerals? That is one of the deviations from the parallel that invalidates your question. Answer that and we can move forward.

Now, I know many folks on the Right who go to church weekly and listen to their ministers preach about the life and teaching of Christ [being Christian and all], YET, when it comes to taking care of those who are least able to take care of themselves those very same Christians tighten their purse strings as if they were being robbed [balking the most basic teachings of Christ]. Should we also add those folks to your somewhat skewed analogy?

To maintain some credibility in the question we need to know the body of work of this slick talking white guy before we can answer your little litmus test, skewed as it is.

Still wanna play?
I guess where you live being a christian is different then the Christians I know and have been involved with that are more than happy to give time, money, helping hand with those in need.

Those helping out are of all Race, and have one thing in common, that is helping the less fortunate.

It's sad that when you saw your congregation drifting away from this that you failed to speak up, but instead chose to bail.

The Christians I know like to stand up reach out and make a difference.

Last edited by Multipurpose; 03-20-2008 at 02:13 PM.
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post #266 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Actually it doesn't but I will play anyway. Hold on.

Now, about your slick white speaker. What has been his history in public life? Has he been biased, homophobic, an active protester at funerals? That is one of the deviations from the parallel that invalidates your question. Answer that and we can move forward.

Now, I know many folks on the Right who go to church weekly and listen to their ministers preach about the life and teaching of Christ [being Christian and all], YET, when it comes to taking care of those who are least able to take care of themselves those very same Christians tighten their purse strings as if they were being robbed [balking the most basic teachings of Christ]. Should we also add those folks to your somewhat skewed analogy?

To maintain some credibility in the question we need to know the body of work of this slick talking white guy before we can answer your little litmus test, skewed as it is.

Still wanna play?
If you keep dodging my question like that you are likely to run into a bullet--probably from your own gun.

But if playing your silly game will get an answer out of you just assume that all circumstances are exactly the same w/ the individuals and the churches, except that one individual is black and the other is white, and one church is religious left and the other is religious right. If you need it more concrete use Obambi as the black guy and Rev. Wright and his church as the religious left church, and an identical white guy w/ all the pluses and minuses of Obambi and Rev. Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church as the religious right church.

Please just answer the damn question and stop trying to play semantic word games. You know exactly what I am asking. You just don't want to answer it because that would reveal too many of your sacred cows are false.

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post #267 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Thanks man; wasn't sure how it would resonate, but that's reality the way I see it at least.

Obama really does stand a chance of being Reagan-like, in that he could be the catalyst we need to put what nearly 70% of people consider an inept president and his legacy behind us and move onward with some renewed hope, dignity, and mutual respect. That's probably the part I like most about him.

I will probably wildly disagree with him on certain social policy issues, and sure as shit hope he's going to cozy up to a savvy economics team before too long, but given the choices I am increasingly of the belief he's the right guy for the job.


Again well spoken. And I 100% agree with what your saying and your sense of producing a logical and eloquent point of view on the topic. I too would like to know more of his health care plan, and how he plans on working with the rest of the arms of government. Lets get down to the nitty gritty, people say all he is-is a good speaker, but at the end of the day, its a mans word that he must live by.






3. Paul Hamm, Gymnast: I owe a lot to my parents, especially my mother and father.
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post #268 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Multipurpose View Post
I guess where you live being a christian is different then the Christians I know and have been involved with that are more than happy to give time, money, helping hand with those in need.

Those helping out are of all Race, and have one thing in common, that is helping the less fortunate.

It's sad that when you saw your congregation drifting away from this that you failed to speak up, but instead chose to bail.

The Christians I know like to stand up reach out and make a difference.
Who said I bailed?

But I do recall that you tend to be against programs that can provide more help for more people for less cost per person.

Actually when I saw my congregation drifting I stood up in the middle of a service and engaged directly. Didn't make any friends but made a very good point that refocused that particular church back toward helping people instead of helping itself.

McBear,
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post #269 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
If you keep dodging my question like that you are likely to run into a bullet--probably from your own gun.

But if playing your silly game will get an answer out of you just assume that all circumstances are exactly the same w/ the individuals and the churches, except that one individual is black and the other is white, and one church is religious left and the other is religious right. If you need it more concrete use Obambi as the black guy and Rev. Wright and his church as the religious left church, and an identical white guy w/ all the pluses and minuses of Obambi and Rev. Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church as the religious right church.

Please just answer the damn question and stop trying to play semantic word games. You know exactly what I am asking. You just don't want to answer it because that would reveal too many of your sacred cows are false.
OK, if the white guy had not shown any of the traits of the minister, not held rallies against gays, not protested at soldier's funerals, had shown a life of pulling people together, as Obama has shown, and has had a history, as an adult of making his own decisions, I can't see where it would be an issue.

I certainly did not consider the taint of Jeb Magruder's Watergate past a negative effect on me when he was the minister of the church I attended in Lexington in the early 1990s. Nor did I consider the sexist teachings of my first minister back in Harlan in the 1950-60's to negatively affect my thoughts on relationships with women.

I tend to think that if we are voting for a man to be President of the United States, we should assume he has the breadth of reasoning to both listen to the words of his minister and make up his own mind.

McBear,
Kentucky

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post #270 of 528 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 03:10 PM
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OK, if the white guy had not shown any of the traits of the minister, not held rallies against gays, not protested at soldier's funerals, had shown a life of pulling people together, as Obama has shown, and has had a history, as an adult of making his own decisions, I can't see where it would be an issue.

I certainly did not consider the taint of Jeb Magruder's Watergate past a negative effect on me when he was the minister of the church I attended in Lexington in the early 1990s. Nor did I consider the sexist teachings of my first minister back in Harlan in the 1950-60's to negatively affect my thoughts on relationships with women.

I tend to think that if we are voting for a man to be President of the United States, we should assume he has the breadth of reasoning to both listen to the words of his minister and make up his own mind.
Too many "ifs" to be believable. If a white guy, raised at the feet of Rev. Fred Phelps in his Westboro Baptist Church, ran for President of the United States--regardless of some easily faked qualities--you would never vote for him IMO. Never!
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