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post #61 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
Everyone here has learned to recognize BS (Bear Shit) when they see it, and few of us bother to respond anymore. And the Clinton recession began almost a year before he left office, not afterward. The effects only became clear after he left town. And w/ 9/11 following shortly thereafter, along w/ Enron, etc. it is truly amazing that President Bush was able to pull our fat out of the fire.
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post #62 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 07:06 PM
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But, is there any good news? Of course there is. Mortgage refinancing is actually at its highest level since March '04. New home inventories are at their lowest level in two years (meaning over-supply is reducing), lower interest rates mean lower borrowing costs for consumers, the global economy is strong, retail sales are sluggish, but not disastrous, unemployment has risen, but is still below 5%, and S&P sees an end to subprime mortgage writedowns. So, not all news is bad news.
Mortgage Refi's are higher for SOME but [thank goodness] only for qualified folks now. Banks are getting some good paper.

New Home Inventories are at their lowest rates in two years because Builders QUIT BUILDING NEW HOUSES. Horton [largest in the country] is nearly bankrupt, having 75,000 acres of "to be developed" land yanked out from under them. Other builders are being stopped in their tracks as banks refuse to release building loans [the number of defaults for Construction loans is stupid high].

Remember, the unemployment number is a bit lower because they no longer count those that are "off the books". Actual number of people NOT WORKING is the highest ever. Because our population is growing the number of people WORKING is also the highest ever.

We won't see an end to the SubPrime issue until Christmas or later as the number of ARMs that kicked up peaked Mar08.

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post #63 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by McBear
Would that be similar to the four years after Clinton pulled the country out of the Reagan/Bush recession, balanced the budget, gathered a surplus, did NOT raise taxes and started the greatest expansion of the US economy in US Economic history? [Dow 3,241 on 1/21/93 --- 11,723 1/14/2000]

He did have a Republican Congress along for the ride but he used the veto pen to keep Republican charge and spending to a minimum [he vetoed 37 times and was overridden only twice]
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Come on folks? You gonna let McBare get away with those lies? You must have been little kids in the early 90s.

The seniors who now pay tax on their Social Security will be happy to know that it didn't really happen on Willy's watch. But it really did, you see.

And how do you create a surplus and balance a budget? Obviously, you can cut expenses, but the way Willy did it was to raise taxes. He later admitted that he had raised them too much. How to prove it? We inherited a recession right after Willy left office.
OK, let's go over it line by line. Show me the lies.

If you remember the 1992 Election the Democratic rally cry was "It's the Economy, Stupid!". That was because Trickle down Economics failed. The recession could be considered started in Oct 1987 when the DOW lost 23% of it value in 1 day [Black Monday]
Late 1980s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
High unemployment [peaking at 7.8% in June 1992] http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt
Trade deficits grew 29% in 1992 alone U.S. Trade Deficit Grew 29% in 1992 - New York Times
GDP grew at a slower than expected rate

The DOW growth numbers quoted are simple enough to look up [even a NeoCon could do it]

And the Budget Deficit run up by Reagan Bush, fixed by Clinton and then Run up again by Shrub is explained on the chart below.

Now, look up the budgets, see the Republican Congresses press conferences and see how the budget was balanced, then surplused [by the way, I don't agree with some of the cuts that made it happen].

Now, you find a lie in the facts. All I see from you is BS. Never any supporting documentation. Wonder why that always is? Hard to gather citings for BS. Facts, much easier.

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Last edited by mcbear; 03-13-2008 at 07:31 PM.
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post #64 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 07:34 PM
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Mortgage Refi's are higher for SOME but [thank goodness] only for qualified folks now. Banks are getting some good paper.

New Home Inventories are at their lowest rates in two years because Builders QUIT BUILDING NEW HOUSES. Horton [largest in the country] is nearly bankrupt, having 75,000 acres of "to be developed" land yanked out from under them. Other builders are being stopped in their tracks as banks refuse to release building loans [the number of defaults for Construction loans is stupid high].

Remember, the unemployment number is a bit lower because they no longer count those that are "off the books". Actual number of people NOT WORKING is the highest ever. Because our population is growing the number of people WORKING is also the highest ever.

We won't see an end to the SubPrime issue until Christmas or later as the number of ARMs that kicked up peaked Mar08.

Exactly, it is quite obvious that this year is shot and it is only March..............it will be nasty this year when you start counting how many that were just scraping by this past year that fall and become homeless or worse............
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post #65 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
Everyone here has learned to recognize BS (Bear Shit) when they see it, and few of us bother to respond anymore. And the Clinton recession began almost a year before he left office, not afterward. The effects only became clear after he left town. And w/ 9/11 following shortly thereafter, along w/ Enron, etc. it is truly amazing that President Bush was able to pull our fat out of the fire.
The Recession started in 2000 due to Clinton/Greenspan and the Dot.Com boom/bust. Greenspan allowed too much deregulated games to be played and Dot.Com bust was the result.

Note I have NEVER said the 2002 recession was a recession that Bush started. It was mostly a circumstantial event. Between Dot.Com [which could have been managed better], 9/11 and very weak Treasury and Commerce Department Secretaries it was destined to happen. Greenspan cut the Bank Rate down to 1.75 which is about as low as you can go.

The only part of 2002 that Bush can take some credit for is the Energy aspects. He failed to control his buds at Enron and the rest of the folks that paid a lot of campaign dollars to put him in the White House.

As for Bush pulling our fat out of the Fire, He did not succeed. He simply borrowed and charged nearly $5Trillion to try and buy his way out of the problem [thereby passing the true cost of the recession to future generations] and in addition exacerbated the current recession by further ignoring the regulations that govern both the Financial and Energy sectors. Financial collapsed due to its own stupidity and Energy is drowning the country with its greed and avarice.

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post #66 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 07:42 PM
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OK, let's go over it line by line. Show me the lies.

If you remember the 1992 Election the Democratic rally cry was "It's the Economy, Stupid!". That was because Trickle down Economics failed. The recession could be considered started in Oct 1987 when the DOW lost 23% of it value in 1 day [Black Monday]
Late 1980s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
High unemployment [peaking at 7.8% in June 1992] http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt
Trade deficits grew 29% in 1992 alone U.S. Trade Deficit Grew 29% in 1992 - New York Times
GDP grew at a slower than expected rate

The DOW growth numbers quoted are simple enough to look up [even a NeoCon could do it]

And the Budget Deficit run up by Reagan Bush, fixed by Clinton and then Run up again by Shrub is explained on the chart below.

Now, look up the budgets, see the Republican Congresses press conferences and see how the budget was balanced, then surplused [by the way, I don't agree with some of the cuts that made it happen].

Now, you find a lie in the facts. All I see from you is BS. Never any supporting documentation. Wonder why that always is? Hard to gather citings for BS. Facts, much easier.
Your original post said that Clinton balanced his budget without raising taxes. He raised taxes on Social Security benefits. That's your lie. Look it up, cowboy.

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post #67 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 07:50 PM
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Your original post said that Clinton balanced his budget without raising taxes. He raised taxes on Social Security benefits. That's your lie. Look it up, cowboy.
Don't need to look it up. I had forgotten about that one.

That however, was not what balanced the budgets. Fiscal responsibility did that. Now keep going.

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post #68 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
Everyone here has learned to recognize BS (Bear Shit) when they see it, and few of us bother to respond anymore. And the Clinton recession began almost a year before he left office, not afterward. The effects only became clear after he left town. And w/ 9/11 following shortly thereafter, along w/ Enron, etc. it is truly amazing that President Bush was able to pull our fat out of the fire.

The same could be said of you in more ways than 1, you are constantly touting the positive side of the US economy for the past years while the economy and the consumer have slid deeper in to this black tar quagmire. You have no idea what the average consumer has done to themselves and now you are touting a bottom is so close you can smell it.

Due to this touting most others here have stopped trying to respond to your posts showing the positives signs of the economy becuase they know you actuallly have stopped debating the economy and just post a smart ass remark becuase you have no ground to stand on. In every day life you refuse to see the economy and more importantly you refuse to see that the every day lower and middle income class consumer is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Things are only going to get moe dire for those in those lower and mddle income class consumers now with a tighting money supply, the financial meltdown, Bernanke implementing a 3rd shift at the printing machines, Oil at levels never seen before, the dollar at an all time meltdown, gold at levels never seen before, food prices reaching for the skys and due to all of this inflation is going to squeeze the lower and middle class consumer to the point of death or at least they will be looking for life support. Unfortunately the US is not holding that life support this time around as alot of money has gone up in smoke in various daliances and the US in debt up to it's eyeballs. The exporting side of the manufacturing sector that you could always count on to pull out the economy in decades past has all but been outsourced. The average US comsumer that you never really look at is tapped out and it comes at a very ominous time as the US Govt. is as well tapped out.
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post #69 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 09:51 PM
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Don't need to look it up. I had forgotten about that one.

That however, was not what balanced the budgets. Fiscal responsibility did that. Now keep going.
Here's some more you forgot from the 1993 tax act by Bill Clinton considered by many to be among the top three tax hikes in the 20th century:

The Clinton Tax Hike

In 1993, President Clinton ushered through Congress a large package of tax increases, which included the following:

An increase in the individual income tax rate to 36 percent and a 10 percent surcharge for the highest earners, thereby effectively creating a top rate of 39.6 percent.

Repeal of the income cap on Medicare taxes. This provision made the 2.9 percent Medicare payroll tax apply to all wage income. Like the Social Security payroll tax base today, the Medicare tax base was capped at a certain level of wage income prior to 1993.

A 4.3 cent per gallon increase in transportation fuel taxes.

An increase in the taxable portion of Social Security benefits (already noted)

A permanent extension of the phase-out of personal exemptions and the phase-down of the deduction for itemized expenses.

Raising the corporate income tax rate to 35 percent.

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post #70 of 437 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 10:31 PM
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The average US comsumer that you never really look at is tapped out and it comes at a very ominous time as the US Govt. is as well tapped out.
The only reason Jaydipshit4brain continues his rant because he wants you to think he is a step above the average Joe American. He wants people to believe he knows his shit, but we all know the truth. OK, there are few exceptions like Bottomfeeder, who happens to willingly to be his bitch.

Not only he does not want to admit the economy has been tanking for over a year now, Jaydipshit4brain never admits Shrub sells out of America is also partially responsible to the shit shape that we are in. When the Chinese comes knocking our doors for the callable debts, who is Shrub gonna call?

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