There may be good news on the economy, the stock market and housing... - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
The Banks got hit because they disregarded the basic rule of lending; 'having sufficient security.'
I'm not trying to make excuses for the small number of banks who went too far w/ easing their lending rules, but the mortgage industry was steadily moving in that direction over the last five or ten years anyway because real estate was appreciating faster and faster and creditworthiness of most homeowners was increasing and banks were experiencing very few problem w/ repayment. I agree they should have seen the RE bubble expanding and anticipated its bursting far sooner than they did, and began applying the breaks a year or two before it was too late. Again, since so few lending institutions were involved initially, everyone was caught off-guard; and it was really the psychological impact--far more than the actual effect--that caused most of the problems. The issues were far more complicated than that but that is my shorthand version of what I see... FWIW.

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 02:28 PM
~BANNED~
 
Jakarta Expat's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: PM me to Join the Expat Muslims for Obama Club........
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 17,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Gulf investors may not save Citigroup, Dubai executive says

DUBAI (Zawya Dow Jones)--Mideast sovereign wealth funds may fail to save troubled U.S. banking giant Citigroup Inc. (C:Citigroup, Inc C 22.10, -0.99, -4.3&#37 unless more cash is pumped into the lender, the head of a $13 billion Dubai-owned investment firm said Tuesday.
Sameer Al Ansari, Chief Executive of Dubai International Capital told delegates at a private equity conference that it will take more than the combined efforts of the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, the Kuwait Investment Authority and Saudi investor Prince Alwaleed bin Talal to save the bank.
"It's going to take more than that to rescue Citi," Ansari said. He added that more write downs are expected and that Gulf investors would be required to bolster Citi.
The Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, or ADIA, a sovereign wealth fund owned by the world's fourth-largest oil exporter, last year bought a 4.9% stake in Citigroup.
The Kuwait Investment Authority also said in January it would invest $3 billion in Citigroup.
Al Ansari said "it would take a lot more money to rescue Citigroup." A spokesperson for Citi was unable to comment immediately when called Tuesday.
Dubai International Capital, an investment firm controlled by Dubai's ruler Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum, owns a stake in HSBC Holdings PLC (HSBA.LN), bought 3.12% in European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co last year. The company also owns a stake in Standard Chartered PLC (STAN.LN), according to Zawya Investor.
The intervention of sovereign funds such as ADIA, which pumped $7.6 billion into Citi, has failed to stem a decline in the bank's share price that was first triggered by the emergence last year of an $11 billion sub-prime write-down that led to the resignation of the then embattled chief executive Charles 'Chuck' Prince.
Citi's share price has fallen by more than 33% since late November, when the ADIA stake purchase was first reported, till date to close at $23.09 Tuesday.
The bank said in January that it lost $9.83 billion in the fourth quarter spurred by $18 billion in write-downs. To stem the losses Citi said it planned to raise $14.5 billion in capital by selling stakes to investors including Saudi's Prince Alwaleed, the lenders largest single shareholder.
Since coming out in support of former chief executive Prince prior to his resignation billionaire Alwaleed has commented little on Citi's current travails.
A spokesperson for Prince Alwaleed's office didn't answer calls on Tuesday.
Middle East sovereign funds flush with cash from record oil earnings are looked upon as possible saviors for many international lenders reeling from continued U.S. sub-prime losses.
Sheikh Hamad bin Jassem Al Thani, chief executive of the Qatar Investment Authority, QIA, told Zawya Dow Jones in January that the emirate's sovereign wealth fund planned to invest up to $15 billion buying stakes in up to 12 blue-chip U.S. and European banks.
The Qatari fund said last month that it had built a significant stake in Credit Suisse Group (CS:credit suisse group sponsored adr
News, chart, profile, more
Last: 49.34-0.21-0.42%

Gulf investors may not save Citigroup, Dubai executive says - MarketWatch
Jakarta Expat is offline  
post #43 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 06:01 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
I'm not trying to make excuses for the small number of banks who went too far w/ easing their lending rules, but the mortgage industry was steadily moving in that direction over the last five or ten years anyway because real estate was appreciating faster and faster and creditworthiness of most homeowners was increasing and banks were experiencing very few problem w/ repayment. I agree they should have seen the RE bubble expanding and anticipated its bursting far sooner than they did, and began applying the breaks a year or two before it was too late. Again, since so few lending institutions were involved initially, everyone was caught off-guard; and it was really the psychological impact--far more than the actual effect--that caused most of the problems. The issues were far more complicated than that but that is my shorthand version of what I see... FWIW.
Here is a little site that keeps track of the "small number of banks who went too far in easing their lending rules".

As of today 3/4/2008 the number of implosions is 233. That is a significant number of banks to have "imploded". The definition of implosion is "The "imploded" status is somewhat subjective and does not necessarily mean operations are ceased permanently: it can mean bankruptcy filing, temporary but open-ended halting of major operations, or a "firesale" acquisition. The Companies include all types (prime, subprime, or a mix of both; retail or wholesale; subsidiaries and entire companies). Note: Companies listed here may still be operating in some capacity." Needless to say, it boils down to they are clusterfucked. There are some big names on the list and the "watch" list has more.

As the spike in ARMs reaches its peak THIS MONTH the number will increase. When I started watching this list the number was 13 [I posted it up here in February 07].

While somewhat tacky of a "look", the website offers very useful information.

The Mortgage Lender Implode-O-Meter - tracking the housing finance breakdown, related to Alt-A and subprime mortgages, lending fraud, predatory lending, housing bubble, mortgage banking, foreclosures, debt, consolidation, lawyers, class-action lawsui

You can also follow the Hedge Fund issue at The Hedge Fund Implode-O-Meter - tracking the hedge fund implosion - leverage, speculation, SIVs, CDOs, arbitrage, interest rates, credit bubble

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #44 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 06:13 PM
~BANNED~
 
Jakarta Expat's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: PM me to Join the Expat Muslims for Obama Club........
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 17,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
^^^^Speaking of cluster fuck, if the Gulf Investors do decide to walk in and save Citi then Citi will know how a camel feels the morning after..........
Jakarta Expat is offline  
post #45 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 06:19 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Here is the list of WriteOffs of lost debt from the past two quarters from that small number of banks. All numbers are in BILLIONS.

This does NOT include any of the FED bailouts or Reserve release of funds.


ABN AMRO Group $2.40
Bank of America $7.20
Bank of Montreal (BMO) $0.64
Barclays PLC $3.10
Bayerische Landesbank $2.80
Bear Stearns $2.70
Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce $3.20
Citigroup $36.60
Comerica Incorporated $0.06
Commerzbank $0.86
Credit Suisse $5.95
Deutsche Bank $3.20
DZ BANK AG $2.10
Fifth Third Bancorp $0.16
Goldman Sachs $2.40
HBOS PLC $2.50
HSBC $26.50
IKB $11.60
JP Morgan Chase $3.70
Lehman Brothers $3.40
Merrill Lynch $19.40
Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group $0.51
Mizuho Financial Group Inc $3.20
Morgan Stanley $13.80
Natixis $1.80
Royal Bank of Canada $0.54
SunTrust $0.22
The Royal Bank of Scotland $3.60
UBS $19.20
US Bancorp $0.69
Wachovia $3.20
Washington Mutual $1.60
Wells Fargo $1.40

Total $190.23 BILLION

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #46 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Here is the list of WriteOffs of lost debt from the past two quarters from that small number of banks. All numbers are in BILLIONS.

This does NOT include any of the FED bailouts or Reserve release of funds.


ABN AMRO Group $2.40
Bank of America $7.20
Bank of Montreal (BMO) $0.64
Barclays PLC $3.10
Bayerische Landesbank $2.80
Bear Stearns $2.70
Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce $3.20
Citigroup $36.60
Comerica Incorporated $0.06
Commerzbank $0.86
Credit Suisse $5.95
Deutsche Bank $3.20
DZ BANK AG $2.10
Fifth Third Bancorp $0.16
Goldman Sachs $2.40
HBOS PLC $2.50
HSBC $26.50
IKB $11.60
JP Morgan Chase $3.70
Lehman Brothers $3.40
Merrill Lynch $19.40
Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group $0.51
Mizuho Financial Group Inc $3.20
Morgan Stanley $13.80
Natixis $1.80
Royal Bank of Canada $0.54
SunTrust $0.22
The Royal Bank of Scotland $3.60
UBS $19.20
US Bancorp $0.69
Wachovia $3.20
Washington Mutual $1.60
Wells Fargo $1.40

Total $190.23 BILLION
Get a grip bear! It's obvious you don't know what you are talking about--in way over your head.

Besides, do you realize how few financial institutions you posted in comparison to the total number there are???

Don't believe everything you think

Last edited by Jayhawk; 03-04-2008 at 06:33 PM.
Jayhawk is offline  
post #47 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 06:36 PM
~BANNED~
 
Jakarta Expat's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: PM me to Join the Expat Muslims for Obama Club........
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 17,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
Get a grip bear! It's obvious you don't know what you are talking about--in way over your head.

Besides, do you realize how few financial institutions you posted in comparison to the total number there are???


Yosey stop giving this guy economic advice and selling him that stuff, see what it is doing..................
Jakarta Expat is offline  
post #48 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 06:37 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
Get a grip bear! It's obvious you don't know what you are talking about--in way over your head.

Besides, do you realize how few financial institutions you posted in comparison to the total number there are???
Do you realize the size of the one's that I posted. They are the largest on the planet.

Citibank
RBS
JPMChase
BoAmerica
Goldman Sachs
Deutsche Bank
HSBC
Wachovia
Morgan Stanley
WaMu
Merrill Lynch

Yes, I do realize the comparison with the total number of institutions. I believe the correct term is MOST.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #49 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Do you realize the size of the one's that I posted. They are the largest on the planet.

Citibank
RBS
JPMChase
BoAmerica
Goldman Sachs
Deutsche Bank
HSBC
Wachovia
Morgan Stanley
WaMu
Merrill Lynch

Yes, I do realize the comparison with the total number of institutions. I believe the correct term is MOST.
Relative to the total of loan amounts outstanding, what you posted does not even compute. Admit it, you are just trying to scare people for no good reason--as usual!

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
post #50 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 06:45 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
elau's Avatar
 
Date registered: Oct 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Admit it, Jay, you are trying to fool yourself for no good reason - as usual!

'95 R129
'04 G35.5 BS
'10 X204
elau is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Good News...Bad News...Good News mcbear Off-Topic 42 03-24-2008 07:53 PM
    Some good news on the housing front: Metro home sales up by 15%... Jayhawk Off-Topic 0 02-15-2008 02:12 PM
    More good news: Fox News continues ratings slide, mirroring Bush FeelTheLove Off-Topic 23 12-12-2006 10:26 AM
    Housing market crash DaveN007 Off-Topic 10 11-20-2006 12:50 PM
    Good news, CD changer installed and working. Bad news, C-pillar rub... Brian R170 SLK-Class 11 10-05-2001 12:42 PM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome