Obama victory will prolong US racial divide. - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 08:23 PM
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Here is where we disagree. I think the plans being thrown around with greater gov't involvement are like throwing water on a grease fire. If you don't know better it sounds like a good idea but in the end only makes things much worse and costs a lot more money in the end to fix.

I also continue to dispute your 1/7 of Americans without health insurance figure.
OK, how do you propose fixing the system?

Right now the 1/7 without insurance access [even the White House uses this number] tax the federal, state and local budgets worse with incorrect usage of the ER and state systems. Right now, kids, who really don't have a choice in the matter are not able to get health care without using state [read that Federal] assistance anyway.

As it is, the general suggestion appears to be "just ignore those people and maybe they will just die". I know that is not it but I have yet to hear an alternative to "the mean ol Democratic Healthcare monster is going to eat my toes".

So what is your solution?

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post #42 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 08:26 PM
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Remove all sources of government funding and let the market fix the problem. The funding source is currently unlimited, and the process will, undoubtedly, consume all the money. One thing for sure, making more money available to the system is NOT going to fix it.

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post #43 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 08:28 PM
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When I read "moral weapon", "Jesse Jackson" and "salvation for blacks" all in the same sentence, right there I knew this guy was full of $hit.

Nothing further was necessary.....

Jim
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post #44 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 08:41 PM
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Remove all sources of government funding and let the market fix the problem. The funding source is currently unlimited, and the process will, undoubtedly, consume all the money. One thing for sure, making more money available to the system is NOT going to fix it.
The market has had decades to "fix the system" and it has only gotten progressively worse.

Right now a base policy for a 25 yo single female is near 200 a month. Not bad if you are making "average" salary or even median but if you are making $12 per hour that's near 10% of your gross. Now if you happen to just be making minimums for whatever reason...

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post #45 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 08:52 PM
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The market has had decades to "fix the system" and it has only gotten progressively worse.

Right now a base policy for a 25 yo single female is near 200 a month. Not bad if you are making "average" salary or even median but if you are making $12 per hour that's near 10% of your gross. Now if you happen to just be making minimums for whatever reason...
The market isn't a free market, Bear, there's tons of government money in it. And, with the promise of more, why should they fix it?

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post #46 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 09:24 PM
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The market isn't a free market, Bear, there's tons of government money in it. And, with the promise of more, why should they fix it?
Very true, you could take ALL government money away but I foresee a shitload of very pissed off people who have been paying into the SS/Medicare system all their lives somehow finding that inconvenient that their services were no longer being rendered.

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post #47 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 05:43 AM
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I would disagree. As much as most of us would like to think that race is irrelevent and does not matter it continues to play a large role in US politics - for all sides of the racial divide.

It may not matter to you individually nor many of the people you know but when you look at the population as a whole it does play a significant role in certain types of decisions.

Personally I could care less what color someone is but to many it does matter.
If you could care less, why did you post this drivel? It is obvious you care more.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #48 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 05:52 AM
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Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Social conservatism is not a form of conservatism, it is a form of socialism.
I'm a social liberal. In fact just last night I had the neighbors over for beer and crackers.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #49 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 05:54 AM Thread Starter
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If you could care less, why did you post this drivel? It is obvious you care more.
Don't go make assumptions (something you have a bad habit of doing) - you know what they say.

There was one simple reason I posted it. I was bored.
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post #50 of 75 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Damn, three night's in for a thumb, I got sent home in the rain after shattering my ankle, fibula and tibia after a bad jump.

I agree with much of what you say there. I have never understood the state paying for either fertility or viagra issues. While ED might be a real issue with some people, I don't know that it is a state issue.

And you are correct on the suits. As I said prior, some of the proposals have very strong tort reform to keep premiums for malpractice down to a reasonable level and keep doctor's worrying about the care of their patients instead of their mp premiums or the next lawsuit. Bev and Jim pay $240K a year in malpractice insurance [and that is with NO claims against them].

I think that you are looking the correct direction. From what I read, anecdotal stories like this are throughout most of the plans.
You asked how do I propose fixing the problem.

The answer is simple you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. The system is not all bad and you must take an iterative, well planned approach. Just because something does not work as well as it should does not mean you replace it with a system that is even more screwed up than the current one. Which is exactly where the current Medicare, Medicaid, and VA systems are. The waste is horrendous in these systems.

It takes a combination of fixing both the private healthcare market and the current publicily funded programs.

You also use a carrot and a stick method for all of those involved in the system from the patients, to the medical professionals, to the health insurance companies.

You must have tort reform as part of the process.

You punish the health insurance companies if they try and pull the crap the BC/BS of CA did with asking doctors to look for reasons to disqualify insured paitents.

You remove fertility & ED coverage from the "standard" plans. If individuals are interested in this you implement a premium upcharge.

Birth control is now covered.

You hold Doctors & Hospitals responsible for the orders they write. If someone is in a coma ordering PT & OT does no good.

If a patient is pronounced brain dead by the medical staff and there is concurrence with a second opinion you only allow x number of days before the plug is pulled. You do not allow the family or gov't to step in and keep this person "alive" for years at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

You check citizenship when someone is admitted to a hopital without insurance. If the person has no insurance and is not a citizen you do the "basics" and deport. By the basics I mean you treat any life threatening illness, set a broken arm and cast it, etc.

If someone is a smoker or morbidly obese you charge a premium.

If someone if morbidly obese you do not perform joint replacement surgery until after XXX amount of weight is lost. You do how ever provide assistance to help these people lose weight.

You bring common sense back to the system.

There are plenty of opportunities to improve the system without creating another, huge gov't entitlement program.
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