FISA, Priorities, and our Fearless Leader - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 08:58 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
It's worthwhile to notice, in looking back through the "leftie" posts in this thread that there is no specific mention of any one actually being harmed by the implementation of The Patriot Act, no names, no events, no court actions, no criminal charges, not even a denial of a request to the FISA court. But there is a hell of a lot of posturing and rhetoric, e.g. "erode the 4th Amendment", "Trample the Constitution", "Warrantless fishing expeditions" and best of all, "Breach of Liberty and Public Trust".

Come on, folks, give us something real to discuss.
There's a reason he doesn't call himself "McReal..."

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:01 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
Please identify the "warranted" wiretaps to which you refer.

And do you even realize that the new FISA law would not authorize warrant-less wiretaps of anyone in the US? That would require a warrant! Warrant-less would only apply to foreign calls!
You might want to think that one through a bit more. If one half of the call is in the US, it still violates the rights of one of the participants.

Re the wiretaps on the 19 9/11 terrorists. Re-read the 9/11 Commission Report. It will enlighten you as to how much we knew about the majority of those guys.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #43 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:08 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
You might want to think that one through a bit more. If one half of the call is in the US, it still violates the rights of one of the participants.

Re the wiretaps on the 19 9/11 terrorists. Re-read the 9/11 Commission Report. It will enlighten you as to how much we knew about the majority of those guys.
Well we wouldn't want to pick any international terrorist chatter w/out letting them know in advance, would we? You continue to make it up as you go along, don't you bear?

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
post #44 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
There are two problems with McBare and GS in this thread: failure to realize that the Dems themselves are on "warrantless fishing trips". The subpoenas of Miers and Bolton were attempts to put them on display for the "offensive" firing of some federal attorneys for which there is no evidence of wrongdoing. They are hoping to catch someone in a lie. Just like happened to Scooter Libby.

Regarding the telecommunications companies cooperating with the intel agencies on wiretapping, none of them are charged with wrongdoing (a crime). They are being sued civilly by aggressive lawyers and the Dems have openly said they want the suits to go on so they can learn what happened--see, another fishing trip. There is a difference between a crime and a tort, but the Dems always operate the same way. It's the seriousness of the charge, not the evidence of harm, that demands their investigation.
If there was no wrong-doing, then there is no need whatsoever for "retroactive immunity", isn't that right? Another problem solved in BWOT.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #45 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:16 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multipurpose View Post
People calling from out of the country are covered under the 4th?
That's WHO!!!!!
It is the people in the country that you seem to be forgetting.

And also note that the warrantless wiretap issue goes well beyond just the international calls, how they justify if the person is "believed" to be outside the US, etc.

You might want to take a peak at S 2248 which is the FISA Amendments Act of 2007

Here is a little tidbit.
(3) In the absence of a judicial order approving such electronic surveillance, the surveillance shall terminate when the information sought is obtained, when the application for the order is denied, or after the expiration of 168 hours from the time of authorization by the Attorney General, whichever is earliest.

Google and enjoy.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #46 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:19 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
If there was no wrong-doing, then there is no need whatsoever for "retroactive immunity", isn't that right? Another problem solved in BWOT.
As even you should know, there are already dozens--maybe hundreds--of nuisance civil law suits against the US companies which will cost them millions (billions?) before they can all be resolved--which is not a good way to get them to cooperate w/ the US NSA agencies.

BTW: It's "If there were no wrongdoing" not "If there was no wrongdoing..."

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
post #47 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:19 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomline1 View Post
Walking out to the Capitol steps is an old Democrat gimmick. I remember many of those photo ops when Dems were pissed at the opposition's maneuvers, esp during the Gingrich years.
That doesn't mean it is right. Obstruction and obfuscation are inexcusable, no matter who is doing it.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #48 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:24 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
That doesn't mean it is right. Obstruction and obfuscation are inexcusable, no matter who is doing it.
That is funny! Obstruction and obfuscation are your primary modus operandi!!

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
post #49 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:27 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
As even you should know, there are already dozens--maybe hundreds--of nuisance civil law suits against the US companies which will cost them millions (billions?) before they can all be resolved--which is not a good way to get them to cooperate w/ the US NSA agencies.

BTW: It's "If there were no wrongdoing" not "If there was no wrongdoing..."
Wrongdoing is a singular noun. It is "was". I think you were going for "If there were no wrongdoings..."

On a more serious note, suing to protect privacy is not a nuisance suit. As an example, if IBM were to, on February 5, 2007 manage to lose all my employee data [and that of 900 others] and fail to advise me of that situation so I could take measures to protect my ID, credit and any other circumstance, it would not be considered a nuisance suit to reach out and smack them for negligence in the caretaking of my personal data.

Suing the telcos for similar malpractice is, likewise not a nuisance suit. It is the only way a person has to protect their rights against a Corporation. Apparently they frown on one just going to Corporate Headquarters and kicking the shit out of the CIO.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #50 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
As even you should know, there are already dozens--maybe hundreds--of nuisance civil law suits against the US companies which will cost them millions (billions?) before they can all be resolved--which is not a good way to get them to cooperate w/ the US NSA agencies.

BTW: It's "If there were no wrongdoing" not "If there was no wrongdoing..."
"The President has said that American lives will be sacrificed if Congress does not change FISA. But he has also said that he will veto any FISA bill that does not grant retroactive immunity. No immunity, no FISA bill. So if we take the President at his word, he's willing to let Americans die to protect the phone companies." -- Ted Kennedy

IOW, you find the president's position in regard to sacrificing American lives to protect the phone companies perfectly reasonable...

Alrighty then.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Republicans pushed 'bogus' terror threat to expand FISA BNZ Off-Topic 4 09-20-2007 03:51 AM
    So what are your priorities for president in '08 ?? old300D Off-Topic 102 05-19-2007 11:30 AM
    Priorities in Iran Teutone Off-Topic 5 02-25-2007 01:34 PM
    Take me to your leader Nutz 4 Benz Off-Topic 3 10-10-2006 10:24 AM
    Following the leader.......Simom says.. Shipfaced Off-Topic 22 04-26-2006 10:45 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome