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post #11 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:43 AM
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"The President has said that American lives will be sacrificed if Congress does not change FISA. But he has also said that he will veto any FISA bill that does not grant retroactive immunity. No immunity, no FISA bill. So if we take the President at his word, he's willing to let Americans die to protect the phone companies." -- Ted Kennedy
The Dems in the Senate debated and passed it. The Senate is controlled by which party? Ted Kennedy is awash in possibilities.

The Congressional cunts are too cowardly to address the issue in debate and take a vote.

Instead, they focus on player steroid use in sports.

Way to go Congress!

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

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post #12 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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^ So can one conclude that politicians feel the collective memory of the American public is greater than 2 years, but less than 6?

I hate to paint a diverse group like Congress with such a broad brush, but I can see the yellow stripe down their collective backs from here. Any possibility they man up and tow the line on this one?

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post #13 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 12:14 PM
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Depends on which line to tow. The House can either follow the Senate and just rubber stamp the FISA provisions or it can debate the issue and see where the chips fall. Note it was the Republicans that walked out of the discussion.

It seems the big question is whether the NSA/FBI/CIA/LEO should be required to get a warrant from a judge to execute wiretaps and to snoop through databases of information.

If the various Law Enforcement Agencies have probable cause to justify a wiretap or inspection of a person's records then it seems a judge will provide them with the tools they require. No one is opposing that. NO ONE.

It is the warrantless, fishing expeditions that are being fought. It would seem that all those strict Constitutionalists would be jumping up and down to demand that the Fourth Amendment rights of EVERY American be respected.

Of course this Administration has, over the past 7 years ignored as much of the law as possible to do as it wishes. I am not surprised that it thinks FISA is just fine, as is.

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post #14 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 12:40 PM
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Depends on which line to tow. The House can either follow the Senate and just rubber stamp the FISA provisions or it can debate the issue and see where the chips fall......
So far they have done neither. Instead they are getting outraged-hurrumphy-panty-wadded over sports figures using hormones.

That's their priority.

B

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post #15 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Personally, I find the concept of "retroactive immunity" just as outrageous as the acts to which the Bush administration wants it applied. IMO, Verizon, AT&T, and all participants in this outrageous breach of liberty and public trust should face a high degree of criminal scrutiny for their actions.

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post #16 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 01:31 PM
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So far they have done neither. Instead they are getting outraged-hurrumphy-panty-wadded over sports figures using hormones.

That's their priority.

B
Well, that is the thing with committees, they are capable of doing multiple things at the same time. It's not as if they have to run Roger Clemens out of the House Chamber to start working on other stuff.

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post #17 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 01:36 PM
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Personally, I find the concept of "retroactive immunity" just as outrageous as the acts to which the Bush administration wants it applied. IMO, Verizon, AT&T, and all participants in this outrageous breach of liberty and public trust should face a high degree of criminal scrutiny for their actions.
That just flies in the face of everything this country is about. You do something wrong BUT somehow manage to get your ass covered by someone even more corrupt.

There is a great article on Privacy, lack of it and what to do/not to do that I was going to post but it is Lllllllooooooooonnnnnnnnngggggggg. Folks might need to read it anyway. Just to get an idea.

I take all this stuff for granted as I work with these massive databases on a regular basis. To me, understanding what FISA can do - even with current technology is terrifying. We need to be looking at ways to include MORE limits and control on how data is used, not less.

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post #18 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 04:09 PM
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^ So can one conclude that politicians feel the collective memory of the American public is greater than 2 years, but less than 6?

I hate to paint a diverse group like Congress with such a broad brush, but I can see the yellow stripe down their collective backs from here. Any possibility they man up and tow the line on this one?
I think this one could send their poll numbers into the single digits! And if there is a terrorist attack during this time, I predict the Republicans will re-gain the House, Senate and White House!!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #19 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 04:13 PM
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Depends on which line to tow. The House can either follow the Senate and just rubber stamp the FISA provisions or it can debate the issue and see where the chips fall. Note it was the Republicans that walked out of the discussion.
..........
They didn't walk until the democraps decided there was time to launch a partisan witch-hunt, but not enough time to vote on a Bill that could save US lives. But I am sure you thought that was the correct priority too!

And from what I have seen reported, at least 68% of the House would have voted for the FISA law--just like the Senate--but the House "leadership" prevented it from coming to the Floor!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #20 of 127 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 04:18 PM
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Personally, I find the concept of "retroactive immunity" just as outrageous as the acts to which the Bush administration wants it applied. IMO, Verizon, AT&T, and all participants in this outrageous breach of liberty and public trust should face a high degree of criminal scrutiny for their actions.
Grow up! Get a life!! And get an education!!!

Don't believe everything you think
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