Plan would sidestep Electoral College - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
What's the worst that could happen?

Democracy?

Leonard Cohen - Democracy Lyrics



It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.
From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here
and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on
O mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
Past the Reefs of Greed
Through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on.

It's coming to America first,
the cradle of the best and of the worst.
It's here they got the range
and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.
It's here the family's broken
and it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open
in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep
the river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!
It's coming like the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious,
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on ...

I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.
But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up
this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 01:51 AM
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Even in countries with a Parliament, you don't vote for the leader. I can't understand why we Americans have let our Constitution be subverted. It now means whatever the courts decide, original intent be damned.

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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by wbain View Post
Even in countries with a Parliament, you don't vote for the leader. I can't understand why we Americans have let our Constitution be subverted. It now means whatever the courts decide, original intent be damned.

Don't believe everything you think
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 09:43 AM
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The EC disenfranchises vast swathes of most states--think Dems in solidly Red states, or Reps in Blue states. Their input is entirely ignored and has no impact on the final outcome, which in turn depresses voter turnout and deprives us of a full and accurate assessment of the nation's will. It needs to go bye bye, ASAP
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 09:46 AM
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^ So that other vast swathes of voters can be similarly disenfranchised...

I'm not sure where I fall on this exactly, but I do know this. Mob rule is for the birds. There needs to be some way to weight votes so that a few dense population centers don't end up speaking for the rest of us.
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 10:11 AM
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No, a vote should be worth exactly one vote --> one person -- one vote.

Eliminating the EC would not disenfranchise anyone, and would require candidates to compete in every state and region on an equal footing, 'cause they'd be trying to win each and every vote they could, rather than just whole blocks of EC delegates
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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
Democracy?
A democracy is a mobocracy. Our founding fathers wrote in an Electoral College for several reasons, the main one being that they did not want 2 or 3 states with large populations forcing their political views on many states with sparse populations.

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cmitch View Post
A democracy is a mobocracy. Our founding fathers wrote in an Electoral College for several reasons, the main one being that they did not want 2 or 3 states with large populations forcing their political views on many states with sparse populations.
Which is why the FF's also specified that we have a representative democracy rather than a direct democracy...

Don't believe everything you think
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Mob rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
^ Alarmist.
^^ Fascist

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
How much time and continued education of the voters is the guess at abolishing this crud. Abolish the Electoral College sometime in the future as it is no longer needed as the framers intended.
What the Framers intended was for a mechanism to placate slave holding sons of bitches. You are right, that may no longer be necessary, unless of course one considers the current system of wage slavery imposed on brown people.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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